thejollyco
The Jolly Company
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Huge disappointment
- Thread starter statelandman
- Start date
and you would know... ?
I'm glad to see this post here, not because someone unfortunately had a bad experience, but because this is a segue into the quality issue of Cuban cigars for me. Here are a few of my observations that I have experienced in my travels with respect to Cuban cigars. This is not intended to upset anyone’s opinion, but are simply my observations. I am here to make trade contacts, so please don’t take offense. Especially since I'm new here.
Point 1
I find the question of storage/maintenance to be the biggest issue concerning Cuban cigars that I have purchased and smoked on foreign territory. This is mostly in SE Asia and in Europe. I have NOT had this problem when I purchase Cubans in Latin America, namely Venezuela. I do not have an explanation for this, but I do have a theory, and that is that in both Europe and SE Asia, the smoking of dry cigars [like Indonesian cigars] is quite common, so the folks who sell “wet” cigars do not really have a basis for maintaining their stock at 70/70. The locals who purchase, may not care one way or the other. In Latin America, the smoking of “wet” cigars is more common, at least amongst the population that can afford a humidor, hence the good experiences I have had in Venezuela with Cuban cigars.
Some examples just from the last couple of years: [1] Kuala Lumpur and Miri, Malaysia, Mar 2002, Cohiba bone dry and very sour, [2]Caracas, Apr 2002, Cohiba, excellent, [3] Amsterdam Dec 2002, RyJ bone dry,[4] Jakarta, Jan 2003, RyJ and Monte #3, excellent, [5] Mar 2003, Cohiba again, separate purchases in Singapore, Bangkok, and again in Miri. All bone dry and “stinky”, [6] Jun 2003, Edinburgh, Scotland, purchased a Padrón, dried out.
These were all purchased in “approved” places. The exception to my general theory here is the Jakarta purchase, which ironically is the land of the “dry” cigar. The cigar shop is located in the Jakarta Hilton, and it appears to be well run. The cigar “cabinet” at the Tamanaco Intercontinental Hotel in Caracas is also well maintained. No public slams on the other shops that were IMO poor, but if you are headed to any of these countries, you may PM me for details.
My other theory is that these cigar shops are just not moving product. In other words, I think the inventory remains in these poorly-run shops for a significant amount of time, just drying away. The manager of one of the stand-alone shops in Singapore confessed that business is always at a drivel. However, all the business owners of the hotel-based shops said that business was brisk due primarily to Americans who stay in the hotels.
Point 2
I do not find the Cuban cigars to be as well constructed as “domestic” lines in general, and in particular like the Padrón line. This issue often leads to a political debate, concerning private versus state-run business, capitalism vs. communism/socialism. So I’ll just drop the matter here. But the construction is somewhat secondary to me anyways, so when I find a good Cuban, that’s well maintained by the retailer, it is usually a very good smoke.
Point 3
I have not done any “dark-side” purchases, i.e., internet stuff from the various vendors who will ship into the U.S. in violation of the law, etc. It could be that these vendors are getting quality stock out of Cuba, and are maintaining the stock to standard. So for those members of the “dark-side” if you are getting consistently good smokes, then congratulations.
Point 4
I think perhaps there may be a lot of “forbidden-fruit” syndrome about Cuban cigars. Another words, we want them so bad simply because we can’t have ‘em, and also because it distinguishes us from other cigar smokers, i.e., “we are really cool because we smoke Cubans and we know all about ‘em”. That’s not a dig at anyone here, but it is something that one can witness on cruise ships, from folks who are not even cigar smokers. I’m sure you folks have seen this.
Point 5
And finally, my real-world friends here in Houston that herf with me at the local cigar shop say I must be getting duped into buying fakes during my travels, that Cuban cigars are the best in the world, etc. But they never seem to offer up a Cuban cigar as a counter-argument, though we trade domestics.
Just my observations.
Best regards,
4A
Point 1
I find the question of storage/maintenance to be the biggest issue concerning Cuban cigars that I have purchased and smoked on foreign territory. This is mostly in SE Asia and in Europe. I have NOT had this problem when I purchase Cubans in Latin America, namely Venezuela. I do not have an explanation for this, but I do have a theory, and that is that in both Europe and SE Asia, the smoking of dry cigars [like Indonesian cigars] is quite common, so the folks who sell “wet” cigars do not really have a basis for maintaining their stock at 70/70. The locals who purchase, may not care one way or the other. In Latin America, the smoking of “wet” cigars is more common, at least amongst the population that can afford a humidor, hence the good experiences I have had in Venezuela with Cuban cigars.
Some examples just from the last couple of years: [1] Kuala Lumpur and Miri, Malaysia, Mar 2002, Cohiba bone dry and very sour, [2]Caracas, Apr 2002, Cohiba, excellent, [3] Amsterdam Dec 2002, RyJ bone dry,[4] Jakarta, Jan 2003, RyJ and Monte #3, excellent, [5] Mar 2003, Cohiba again, separate purchases in Singapore, Bangkok, and again in Miri. All bone dry and “stinky”, [6] Jun 2003, Edinburgh, Scotland, purchased a Padrón, dried out.
These were all purchased in “approved” places. The exception to my general theory here is the Jakarta purchase, which ironically is the land of the “dry” cigar. The cigar shop is located in the Jakarta Hilton, and it appears to be well run. The cigar “cabinet” at the Tamanaco Intercontinental Hotel in Caracas is also well maintained. No public slams on the other shops that were IMO poor, but if you are headed to any of these countries, you may PM me for details.
My other theory is that these cigar shops are just not moving product. In other words, I think the inventory remains in these poorly-run shops for a significant amount of time, just drying away. The manager of one of the stand-alone shops in Singapore confessed that business is always at a drivel. However, all the business owners of the hotel-based shops said that business was brisk due primarily to Americans who stay in the hotels.
Point 2
I do not find the Cuban cigars to be as well constructed as “domestic” lines in general, and in particular like the Padrón line. This issue often leads to a political debate, concerning private versus state-run business, capitalism vs. communism/socialism. So I’ll just drop the matter here. But the construction is somewhat secondary to me anyways, so when I find a good Cuban, that’s well maintained by the retailer, it is usually a very good smoke.
Point 3
I have not done any “dark-side” purchases, i.e., internet stuff from the various vendors who will ship into the U.S. in violation of the law, etc. It could be that these vendors are getting quality stock out of Cuba, and are maintaining the stock to standard. So for those members of the “dark-side” if you are getting consistently good smokes, then congratulations.
Point 4
I think perhaps there may be a lot of “forbidden-fruit” syndrome about Cuban cigars. Another words, we want them so bad simply because we can’t have ‘em, and also because it distinguishes us from other cigar smokers, i.e., “we are really cool because we smoke Cubans and we know all about ‘em”. That’s not a dig at anyone here, but it is something that one can witness on cruise ships, from folks who are not even cigar smokers. I’m sure you folks have seen this.
Point 5
And finally, my real-world friends here in Houston that herf with me at the local cigar shop say I must be getting duped into buying fakes during my travels, that Cuban cigars are the best in the world, etc. But they never seem to offer up a Cuban cigar as a counter-argument, though we trade domestics.
Just my observations.
Best regards,
4A
I partially agree with what you are saying, but then again to each his own. I find that once you find a proper vendor, the quality control is out of your hands really and handled before you even see the smokes...........Four Aces said:
As for offering up an ISOM for arguement.....IF I am ever out of the country at the same time as you....SHOOOOOOooooooooooot, we need to hook up and have a smoke bro! We can talk about it then!
Merry Christmas!
Phil
You're on!Phil said:...As for offering up an ISOM for arguement.....IF I am ever out of the country at the same time as you....SHOOOOOOooooooooooot, we need to hook up and have a smoke bro! We can talk about it then!
Merry Christmas!
Phil
As for smokin' 'em here, it is always understood to be pre-embargo.
Regards,
4A
I've never smoked a pre-embargo cuban.Four Aces said:You're on!
As for smokin' 'em here, it is always understood to be pre-embargo.
Regards,
4A
I have, however, smoked some that I brought back from a legal trip to Cuba. You're allowed to bring back $100 or less of cigars for personal use from a government-sanctioned trip.
Yeah, that's what I did.
lucasbuck
Sheriff Buck
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2003
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- 6,909
For me a good cigar is a good cigar. I don't care where it came from or who made it. I've had plenty of bad cigars unfortunately both Cuban and Domestic. It comes down to taste for me and the flavor you get from many fine Havanas is not even close to matched by any domestic I've had including super and ultra premiums. I tend to favor a full flavored smoke medium to medium-full in strength. The Cohibas, Montes, Sancho Panzas and Punches that I've fallen in love with :love: offer the best of the best so far in my limited experience. Now I've not tried even a small percentage of the best Doms but the only one so far that comes close is the VSG.
Great post 4A. Very interesting info about cigar storage around the world.
Great post 4A. Very interesting info about cigar storage around the world.
statelandman
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2003
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- 385
I doubt the VR that was the original subject of this post was too dry. I'd had it in my humidor at 65% for over three months.
Can someone explain what is meant by the "sick period" that Matt mentioned in his post above?
Can someone explain what is meant by the "sick period" that Matt mentioned in his post above?
sibernation
New Member
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- Jun 2, 2002
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- 834
The more I smoke them the more I like them. Yes, better than anything. It seems like I get so much more in the flavor. And they seem to last longer (probably me, but I dont care ) than most domestics. It is a unique flavor that can have you craving for it :0 Dont give up. Heck Ive had a lot of domestics that didnt really hit me untill the 2nd cigar.
lucasbuck
Sheriff Buck
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At some point during the life of an aging Havana it can become "sick" as in exhibiting a sour or otherwise nasty taste for a period of several months. Usually if you put them away for a while longer they will come around and become great smokes again. How'd I do?statelandman said:
Well I have to agree with that!lucasbuck said:
But first let me say I hope y'all got some good cigar or cigar related goodies for Christmas.
Here's a quote from another cigar aficionado who apparently has experienced the same issues of storage/maintenance outside of the U.S. I do feel we are indeed lucky here in the U.S., where our businesses, not just the cigar business, tend to be more service and quality oriented. Just my opinion from my travels.
"...were storing cubans at 46%rh!..."
Click on the link below for the source, then go to the bottom of the page, the user is named "gotch".
source
This is just a point of reference for those of you who do or will travel and purchase. Hope it proves useful.
Regards,
4A
CoventryCat86
Corresponding authority
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2003
- Messages
- 12,599
Great post FA!! I especialy like your Point #4 as I have seen that with people who really don't know much about cigars. What's nice is that around the Cigar BB's most people who rave about them really do just prefer them rather than the "cruise ship" crowd who merely smoke them to try to impress people.
The bottom line is people should smoke what THEY like, whether that be an Opus xXx Power Ranger, a Havana or a Consuegra.
Me, I'll smoke anything, and ya know what, 97% of the time, I'm going to LIKE it because to me, almost any cigar is better than no cigar at all, well except a PLUGGED cigar, I HATE that!! And I've had plugged Havanas that get tossed out the window in no time
The bottom line is people should smoke what THEY like, whether that be an Opus xXx Power Ranger, a Havana or a Consuegra.
Me, I'll smoke anything, and ya know what, 97% of the time, I'm going to LIKE it because to me, almost any cigar is better than no cigar at all, well except a PLUGGED cigar, I HATE that!! And I've had plugged Havanas that get tossed out the window in no time
WilliesFivers
New Member
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Also please remember that it is possible that this particular smoke was lit during a sick period ....
moki
el Presidente
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I have uncovered the conspiracy!!Shuji said:Sure you can blame it on that. Do you *know* that was a highlighter marking and not some kind of rot?statelandman said:
You have to blame it on that, because those cigars are pretty damn good.
Someone used a green marker to mark that cigar as a bad one to discard or sell to unknowing tourists!
I appreciate all the points that have been brought up here.
However, I have had the good fortune to have enjoyed a few legit Cuban cigars. There is a uniqueness to their flavor profile that I have never found in a non-cuban smoke. It is, unfortunately, THAT flavor profile that satisfies me the most!
Perhaps I don't listen well enough but I don't hear this point being made that often. Even between brands from Cuba there is this twang in the flavor that is unmistakable! Has anyone found a Non-Cuban that has it????????
However, I have had the good fortune to have enjoyed a few legit Cuban cigars. There is a uniqueness to their flavor profile that I have never found in a non-cuban smoke. It is, unfortunately, THAT flavor profile that satisfies me the most!
Perhaps I don't listen well enough but I don't hear this point being made that often. Even between brands from Cuba there is this twang in the flavor that is unmistakable! Has anyone found a Non-Cuban that has it????????
CoventryCat86
Corresponding authority
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An excellent question posed to us by pinarphan. I agree with him 100%. I've smoked thousands of cigars in my day and Cuban tobacco is unique and I haven't found anything like it or even close.
If someone has, please let me know as I'd be very interested..................
I read this thread and have to agree wholeheartedly with Matt. I'm guessing is was ammonia that you were tasting/smelling, and the cigar just wasn't "ready" to smoke.
And depending upon your source, there's a very good chance it could have been fake. I believe that in general circles (non-cigar-knowledgable-circles) that 90% of the cigars presented as cuban ARE NOT. But that's another thread. In fact, I think I'll post a poll about that.
Trade/buy through CP for more islands. There are some very knowledgable, helpful members here, and they'll get you headed in the right direction.
And depending upon your source, there's a very good chance it could have been fake. I believe that in general circles (non-cigar-knowledgable-circles) that 90% of the cigars presented as cuban ARE NOT. But that's another thread. In fact, I think I'll post a poll about that.
Trade/buy through CP for more islands. There are some very knowledgable, helpful members here, and they'll get you headed in the right direction.