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Of English Hops and Whatnot

Martin2D

Martin2D

Clueless About Life
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
1,288
So what's the deal with English varieties. Homebrewing is all about experimentation, so I've decided recently to branch out and try some Fuggles, Goldings, Northern Brewer, etc.

First I made a 2 row/Munich with all Northern brewer and Pacific gem. That beer sucked, but I suffered through drinking it. Now, I just made a Terrapin Rye Pale Ale from CYBI that features Magnum, Fuggles, and Goldings. At 40 IBU it is so intensely bitter and there's no good hop flavor. Is there some trick to using these types of hops or do people just like that bitter wood taste? Anyone have the same feelings and know some hops that aren't as terrible that can be used in ESB's or other beers; possibly ones that aren't so common in APA's and IPA's?

I'm so thankful for American hops...
 
You are using only bittering hops. They don't contribute much flavor/aroma at all... at least not in our sense of hop nose. In my experience English hops are more for balancing the beer and take somewhat of a backseat to malt profiles.

Here's a little something to help you understand the differences in hop varieties.

From Steve Parkes on cohumulone, etc:
"Basically, alpha-acids are a class of compounds known as humulones. They consist of a complex hexagonal molecule with several side chains, with ketone and alcohol groups. Examples include humulone, cohumulone, adhumulone, posthumulone, and prehumulone. Each different humulone differs in the make up of the side chain, for instance, humulone has a side chain of isovalerate attached, while cohumulone has isobutyrate as its side chain. These side chains can become detached during extended storage under poor conditions and result in cheesy flavors associated sometimes with old hops. It has become accepted dogma among brewers to think of each of these humulones to have different bitter characteristics. There are some that swear that the bitterness associated with cohumulone is "harsher" than that from humulone. Other studies have shown no difference in sensory impact when each of the different humulones are compared. Nevertheless, the humulone:cohumulone ratio is now quoted in hop analyses and new varieties are being bred with low cohumulone levels in mind. Historically, the most highly prized hop varieties - including noble hops such as Hallertau, Tettnang and Saaz - also happen to be those that have low cohumulone levels. "
 
Fuggle and Goldings aren't bittering hops and NB is kind of a tweener? Never used Pacific gem so don't know about that one.

Are you sure your scale isn't broken Mathew?
 
Fuggle and Goldings aren't bittering hops and NB is kind of a tweener?
Click to expand...

I would disagree with that. In some styles (English, Irish, Belgian) Fuggles or Goldings can be the only hops used, both bittering and aroma. EKG's in high amounts can have citrusy notes similar to some American hops. I recently had an American Pale Ale made with EKG's including a dry hop dose and it was excellent.

The California Steam Beer style "showcases the signature Northern Brewer hops (with woody, rustic or minty qualities) in moderate to high strength". NB hops are very distinctive in their character. I like using them in big stouts!

What was your recipe? Are you used to hoppy beers? 40 IBU's IS bitter but not really that bitter.
 
thevalkrye said:
Fuggle and Goldings aren't bittering hops and NB is kind of a tweener?
Click to expand...

I would disagree with that. In some styles (English, Irish, Belgian) Fuggles or Goldings can be the only hops used, both bittering and aroma. EKG's in high amounts can have citrusy notes similar to some American hops. I recently had an American Pale Ale made with EKG's including a dry hop dose and it was excellent.

The California Steam Beer style "showcases the signature Northern Brewer hops (with woody, rustic or minty qualities) in moderate to high strength". NB hops are very distinctive in their character. I like using them in big stouts!

What was your recipe? Are you used to hoppy beers? 40 IBU's IS bitter but not really that bitter.
Click to expand...

True, but calling them strictly a "bittering hop" isn't accurate.

ETA: I'm curious as to the recipe and amount/schedule of hops used too.
 
Here's the recipe:

OG 1054
FG
40.3 IBU
6.8 SRM

90 min boil

4.26kg US 2-row
600g Rye
600g Munich
300g Victory
220g Honey Malt

14g Magnum 14%AA @60m
14g Fuggles 5%AA @ 30m
14g Goldings 4.75%AA @20m
14g Goldings @10m
17g Cascade 5.75%AA @ 1m
35g Amarillo dry hop

Wyeast 1272 American Ale II

Mash at 154

I just got my grains to make my bitter/esb. I'm on the fence whether I will brave trying to use these hops again or whether I will do cascade or something else.
 
Upon further drinking a sample of this beer, it is not overly bitter, but the hop flavors are weird woody/soapy and whatnot. I think the issue with this recipe is that it is so dry and there are not any sugars to mesh with the beer.
 
Oops didn't see that! :blush:

Have you had the Terrapin beer you are cloning? Does it have those flavors? I haven't tried it before so I can't say. Maybe you just don't like that combo of hops? Maybe your hops were old or stale or musty or off?

The Cascade and Amarillo are a classic combo for American beers. The Fuggles and Foldings should play into that citrusy profile as well and the bittering charge of Magnum would have very little flavor added to the beer other than bitter.

I would check your beer against a commercial example if possible and take it from there.

Just my 2 cents.
 
I would, but I don't feel like buying a six pack. It just came to NJ, but I really don't go to buy commercial beers anymore due to lack of interest and budget.
 
Is the beer young?
I had a SMaSH that I did with Simcoe, early on it really sucked, like drinking a pile of wet old grass....
After a few months down, it really calmed down and had a great finish.

t
 
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