SCHIP & Tobacco Politics

[Double D]

I am betting you will be going whether you want to or not. This is exactly why there is a no politics clause on this forum but I guess a phd excuses you from reading the rules.

 

[Josh]

Guys, you are gonna make the bunny cry.

 

[botl43]

Hey It's Friday.. I've got just the board for you to viset.. I'm sure they would love to have you join them and put your point across.. You think this crowed is bad.. You have no idea...

 

[Wurm]

Hey Asshat... I'm from Graf, and I'm up and guess what... I have nothing to do with the military or DOD at all. So you don't outrank diddly squat in regards to me.

And you sound like one of those guys who look in the mirror and think "I'm so important, they should name building 302 after me!"

1) Political talk isn't welcome here.

2) SCHIP is a program that has needed an overhaul for a long time. It was a good idea that worked, but it needs to be changed to properly reflect the current state of the union. This however does not mean I support the anti-tobacco tax that is being proposed as a way to bring SCHIP in line. It is nothing more than another anti-smoking law being added to an important issue in the disguise of "SAVE THE CHILDERN!" Also since more than one of the dip-dunks in support of the tax have stated "Maybe it will help get people to quit!" it makes even more sense, first making SCHIP dependant on tobacco funds while at the same time hoping that the people who are supposed to fund the bill in fact stop paying the needed taxes when they quit smoking. Serious Washington Catch-22 reasoning there.

3) Maybe if we weren't throwing billions and billions of dollars away into the black hole of the middle east, SCHIP wouldn't need a unfounded tobacco tax to continue functioning.

4) That you decided to bring this topic here, in total disregard of the rules set by the owner means that you are nothing more than a common troll, regardless of your pay-grade. And we will watch with satisfaction when you are given the boot.

Good-day to you.

 

[Wurm]

Ever wonder why those who say they are leaving for good... always lie?

 

[tigger]

What is it around here lately - did someone dump E-agra in the kiddie pool?

HD, as you initially appeared an intelligent, learned devotee of the leaf, I had hoped that you would learn something about CP from the response to your interaction with Gary on the other thread that would allow you to settle in and become a contributing member of this community. It's clear to me now that your smug self-importance will make that at best very difficult, and likely impossible.

A few more observations:

-I wonder if, when you moved to Italy, you observed the local customs and mores before you got involved with the area in which you live
-The ideas you espouse in this thread are anathema to those who cherish freedom.
-Ignorance and "the Hill" are not mutually exclusive.
-Someone who spent a decade in Washington really should be able to spell "lobbyist" correctly.

Edited for expansion and edification.

Further edited to LMAO at what Rob says in the next post.

 

[rob300c]

Is this a "I'd rather meltdown than apologize to Gary" thread?

:sign:

-Rob

 

[CigarStone]

WOW! Your ignorance of reality is frightening! I hope you never get the opportunity to act on behalf of others.

 

[switters]

Don't bother replying because I won't be looking here anymore. :sign:

Be a man of your word.

 

[Bxcigrfan]

wow! um? yeah.

well Fast Food should be taxed if cigars should be. Here in New York City they banned trans fats in restuarants and fast food joints but they should be taxing McDonalds/Burger King too. they have a major part in bad health and obesity. BigMac for a $1 = heart attack

i dont think anyone is saying the getting heath care for needy children is a wrong thing and shouldnt be done i think what fellow brothers are saying is why tax Cigars at an unnormal and unfair disproportionate rate. there has been no other product that i know of or have heard anyone else mention being ever taxed in this format.

just my .02

 

[beyond the band]

As for me, I have had it with this forum. I've been on god-only-knows how many and I've never met such a ball-swinging rude crowd before. I am out of here. You'll be grateful and I sure as hell am. Don't bother replying because I won't be looking here anymore.


Toodles bitches.......

 

[DePasta]

Well Highdudgeon.......show me an example of when a regressive tax has actually worked to fully fund long term programs......I don't think you can. When people quit smoking how will the program be funded? What tax is next, how about an extra tax for those that benefit from our economy but do not live here......sounds good to me. How many of the 40+ milllion are uninsured because they choose to be? That is their choice. As it is my choice to take part in something that is Legal, I don't need you to tell me how to live my life. Thanks, I see you are still here.....I thought you were leaving.....

 

[CigarStone]

As for me, I have had it with this forum. I've been on god-only-knows how many and I've never met such a ball-swinging rude crowd before. I am out of here. You'll be grateful and I sure as hell am. Don't bother replying because I won't be looking here anymore.


Toodles bitches.......

Is he lying as well?


5 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
5 Members: CigarStone, mmburtch, tigger, ddepaola, highdudgeon

 

[jfields]

I'll gladly pay taxes on my cigar purchases to fund healthcare for these poor, unhealthy kids. I think it unfair to make the fast food industry contribute. :sign:

Edit to add: When in the UK, I noticed that there were hardly any obese people, especially children. I also noticed that there are no Mcdonalds, Burger Kings, Wendys, and Taco Bells on every corner. Hmmmmmmm.

 

[Seth]

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

- Karl Marx

 

[CigarStone]

It's the same old crap (trying to stay just this side of politics here) Give your earned money to those who can't/won't earn their own without any effort to identify the can't from the won't.

Good example, worth reading: Father - Daughter Talk

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be very open minded, and among other ideals, was very much in favor of higher taxes to support more government programs, in other words, redistribution of wealth.

She was deeply ashamed that her father believed in keeping what he had earned, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.

One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the need for more government programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was doing in school. Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.

Her father listened then asked, 'How is your friend Audrey doing?' She replied, 'Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. But she is so very popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties, and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she's too hung over.'

Her father asked her, 'Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend Audrey, who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.

The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired back, 'That's a crazy idea. How would that be fair? I've worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work. Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!'

The father slowly smiled, winked, and said gently, 'Welcome to the real world.'


Maybe HD should give back his PhD and give half of his enormous brain to a crack ho in the hopes she will now be intelligent enough to go get a job and support herself and her 7 kids!

 

[mmburtch]

I believe this is the one area of politics that Rod gave his permission to discuss. That being said, maybe, just maybe, someone searching for info on SCHIPP will read these forums and see the other side of the arguement. They certianly won't see it in the media.

 

[tsmckenney]

John, that sh.t is funny.

I have posted this before, and it seems the timing is ripe again. To your Phd, my friend: My former boss, who graduated Summa Cum Laude from Yale Law, and was appointed by the gd President of the United States to her position, is a nearly perfect moron. Examples: Asking me to organize a Christmas Gift Drive at a school with a strong population of Somali students. ??? Then asking a Jew to play the role of Santa. ???

Education is a great thing, but it is not an indication of intelligence. And besides, intelligence is completely relative to one's situation. My older brother couldn't tell me a damn thing about divorce law; but he can fix my car, wire my house, repair plumbing, shingle a roof, recarpet a living room, on and on. And all the while, he's funny as a motherf.cker.

What are you? Please, allow me to qoute our very own BBS: You sir, are a "turd bucket."

I apologize to my CP BOTLs for the negative post.

 

[grateful1]

Okay, I'm guessing that I'll probably draw fire here, but let's go.

Cigar media routinely bashes SCHIP (State Children's Health Insurance Program, see http://www.cms.hhs.gov/home/schip.asp and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Childre...urance_Program). They are overjoyed that Bush has used his rare veto to overturn a program that would expand healthcare for uninsured children largely with taxes on tobacco products.

The problem is - there are 6 million more kids out there who ARE covered and are not signed up - I wonder why?
The newest bills expanded to 11 million - from 9 - the number to be covered. The remainder of the bill pushed the ADULTS covered from a small percent to a quite large one (i.e. adults making under 75K(opposed to the poverty level coverage now).

Now, let me get one thing straight: there are 41 million Americans without health insurance. Most are children. SCHIP, since 1997, has helped over 5 million families with children get the insurance their children need in order to thrive. Preventative medicine is more cost effective and healthy and inexpensive than trips to the ER by uninsured patients. Helping poor children is an unquestionable good.

If this were the ONLY thing the bill was to help - there would probably be no problem - except that it is not.
Also - by raising the tax, the number of smokes will decrease(a good thing to some) - this is BAD for the bill...where is the money going to come from after the tax revenue drops?

Meanwhile, few people can argue with a straight face that Big Tobacco in US has been a Bad Thing. This has been one of the most nefarious and frankly disgraceful industries, bar none, selling dangerous products to all comers -- including children.

As is the Cola and junk food industry and booze - hey, let's put a sugar tax out there...or maybe a tax on tea!

Also, no one in their right mind can argue that tobacco is entirely safe. Smoking cigarettes is dangerous, carries a high risk of numerous and potentially deadly healh problems. Cigars are safer, no doubt, but second-hand smoke is an issue and cancer of the mouth is no sniffing matter. However, I smoke cigars, avidly so, I understand the risks, and I know they are puny compared to a two-pack a day habit of smoke into the lungs. Cigarettes are an addictive and, as far as I'm concerned, foul habit that is a Bad Thing for healthy living. Cigars? You can be a track star and smoke cigars.

This is somewhat hypocritical and narrow minded. While I don't like cigarettes, I don't deny someone the right to do what they will.
Not true - you can die from them as well.

So, the tax is on tobacco products and, overwhelmingly, on cigarettes. Fine. People in Europe pay much more for cigarettes and Americans should, too. It might even dissuade some smokers.

If you are referring to the new attempted bill - the cigar tax increase is greater than for cigarettes.

Cigars? This is largely a luxury market for most of us. I don't think I have one cigar that costs under $4 in my collection. The average is probably around $7-12, depending on country of origin, a stick and some a good bit more. Do I really mind paying a few cents or even a buck more for my vice knowing that it will help children in need? No. I view it as a civic responsibility. I am partaking of a luxury, it is a luxury not without risks to me and to the healthcare system, and there is a dire need for young people to get the health care they need. Is your dime or dollar per stick that important? Is it, really, that you're willing to undermine the program?

If the bill was about JUST the children - I don't know if we'd have these thread - oh, then there's the items about diminishing revenue...think about it(see above).

Sure, we can tax other things. I live in Europe is gas is something like eight-ten bucks a gallon depending where you are. We can tax chocolate, bedding, whatever. Tobacco makes sense, though, because the profit margins are there, the problems to society are there, and I could care less about people crazy enough to still smoke cigarettes given all we know about its evils. As for cigars, well, why not? The tax is small, compared to cigarettes, and few of us have a six cigar a day habit. Frankly, I think we should feel proud to own up to some civic responsibility and not bitch and moan about a small hit on the pocketbook. If everyone did that about everything, we would have no taxes, and that would mean no government.

You're true colors, eh!

You see - this is a cigar community- the majority on this board (except maybe Bill) care about everyone...OR at least believe in a greater good. If not - they don't show it.

What greater good can come from the bill passing in its current state - in a couple years there will be limited funds left to support the children and adults on it...and then the taxes will spill over into other areas - or we will go into more debt.

Next time you try to have an intelligent conversation - get your facts straight and bring in less emotion.
Did you miss Debating 101?

Thank you for waiting to post this on a Friday!

 

[Rod]

First of all, we have a NO POLITICS rule for a reason. See why?

It's people like highdudgeon who claim to be so brilliant yet lack the most common sense. He believes that we should all support the poor people. Those who have a bunch of kids and only make min wage. Don't have kids if you can't afford it. A lot of people on welfare down here in LA (as I'm sure in most parts of the US) have more and more kids so that they can collect more welfare (money from us tax payers). Is this fair? Those of us who know how to manage our money, don't overspend, save our money for luxuries we enjoy, are RESPONSIBLE, have to suffer for the underclass dumbass who doesn't care of him/herself or their family???

Yet it's people like highdudgeon who claim to be so smart yet are so ignorant. I have two words for you highdidgeon: NATURAL SELECTION - look it up.