Tabacalera Perdomo Inventory Blowout!

[KayakinBoy]

Which to my mind means they could sell at MSRP if they wanted to....no?

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That's so he can "keep them in stock", but one of TW's excuses to not replying earlier was that he was calling customers waiting for him to get opus? But then, if he is calling those people, why post about the "GREAT" opus sale on THREE different boards, and send out e-mails to people who aren't customers with them.

 

[Nooner]

Moki,

TW is not an authorized retailer per the cigarfamily.com website. So they do not get their Opus direct from Fuente, unless you know something I do not.

Now I do know a couple Authorized Fuente dealers that do sell above MSRP(not just tax) - is this a more acceptable than TW's practice?

Also, I certainly don't know what their prices in their store are for cigars, or what inventory they sell in their store - but I've heard that they treat their B&M customers quite well.

Regards,
Pat

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That list on CigarFamily hasn't been updated in a very long time... but in any event, the statements that TWCigars has made seem quite contrary. First they claimed that they were not an authorized Fuente dealer; if that's the case, then I have no quarrel with them.

However TWCigars also said this:

SeanGAR, you are SOOOO correct it makes me blush.. Supply and demand... Unfortunately demand overruns supply and if we did sell for MSRP or even 10% above, the cigars wouldn't last 5 minutes in our store and no one on the Internet would ever know we even had any in...

Which to my mind means they could sell at MSRP if they wanted to....no?

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Now we are having a good discussion!

I don't know that any retailer would(or should) sell at MSRP if they don't have to. I think the main reason that retailers of Opus X do sell at MSRP is that the profit is fair, and they don't want to lose their status with Fuente - I think MSRP for FFOX is below market value and that retailers should sell at market value if possible. Now of course astute retailers do their best to reward good buying behavior and this is where discounts to market value should be born.

I don't necessarily think TW's price is at market equilibrium(a different term than market value), but that is due to the fact that I think there is a market failure with regards to OpusX.

Regards,
Pat

 

[moki]

I don't know that any retailer would(or should) sell at MSRP if they don't have to. I think the main reason that retailers of Opus X do sell at MSRP is that the profit is fair, and they don't want to lose their status with Fuente - I think MSRP for FFOX is below market value and that retailers should sell at market value if possible. Now of course astute retailers do their best to reward good buying behavior and this is where discounts to market value should be born.

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I not sure you know the retail cigar business very well then. They live or die by their day to day customer who supports them, not the people who cherry pick cigars like Opus and buy nothing else. If they cheese off their daily customers by gouging the crap out of them for desirable cigars like the Opus X cigar (or by not having those cigars available because they sell 'em online for 2x the price), their customers will get ticked off and go elsewhere... and then it's only a matter of time before they go belly up.

Not to mention that there is nothing wrong with seeking a FAIR profit, not the MAXIMUM profit... I've actually found that companies that shoot for the latter end up just shooting themselves in the foot long-term.

Consumers are not stupid; if you treat them well, they will come back. If you treat them like cows to be milked at will, they will not hesitate to burn you for someone else. The smart businessman is not the one who views their customers are cash-cows to be milked, but rather one that builds up positive relationships with them, so that they won't be inclined to jump ship at the drop of the hat.

 

[SeanGAR]

You pedantic, pretentious bastids make me howl. A vocabulary doesn't make you smart pal. If you think this is about supply and demand and not the bottom line of a particular cigar shop then the turnip truck driver must have been dozing when you fell off.

seangars, I'd like to encourage you to not contribute in the future as well. Your not posting here is certainly a benefit to everybody involved.

Its pretty clear that you don't actually know what the word "pedantic" means. Here, I'll help you:

pedantic
adjective

Characterized by a narrow concern for book learning and formal rules, without knowledge or experience of practical matters: academic, bookish, donnish, formalistic, inkhorn, literary, pedantical, scholastic.

"Formal rules" sounds like MSRP to me. I'm arguing the opposite position, that people can sell at whatever price they deem worthy. Y'all are arguing for MSRP and are the pedantic ones.

Your suggesting that I leave is a really tempting reason to stick around.

 

[moki]

You pedantic, pretentious bastids make me howl. A vocabulary doesn't make you smart pal. If you think this is about supply and demand and not the bottom line of a particular cigar shop then the turnip truck driver must have been dozing when you fell off.

seangars, I'd like to encourage you to not contribute in the future as well. Your not posting here is certainly a benefit to everybody involved.

Its pretty clear that you don't actually know what the word "pedantic" means. Here, I'll help you:

pedantic
adjective

Characterized by a narrow concern for book learning and formal rules, without knowledge or experience of practical matters: academic, bookish, donnish, formalistic, inkhorn, literary, pedantical, scholastic.

"Formal rules" sounds like MSRP to me. I'm arguing the opposite position, that people can sell at whatever price they deem worthy. Y'all are arguing for MSRP and are the pedantic ones.

Your suggesting that I leave is a really tempting reason to stick around.

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erm... no. You sound like someone who just looked up the word "pedantic" in a dictionary, and have zero clue about usage.

Sam used the word properly; he was saying you got no street smarts, no common sense, want to show off your "book learnin'", that you're narrowly focused on picky, peripheral aspects of this argument, not seeing the big picture, etc, etc., and the use of some of the "vocab" words you tossed out didn't change that, but rather made you look pedantic.

 

[Nooner]

I not sure you know the retail cigar business very well then. They live or die by their day to day customer who supports them, not the people who cherry pick cigars like Opus and buy nothing else. If they cheese off their daily customers by gouging the crap out of them for desirable cigars like the Opus X cigar (or by not having those cigars available because they sell 'em online for 2x the price), their customers will get ticked off and go elsewhere... and then it's only a matter of time before they go belly up.

Not to mention that there is nothing wrong with seeking a FAIR profit, not the MAXIMUM profit... I've actually found that companies that shoot for the latter end up just shooting themselves in the foot long-term.

Consumers are not stupid; if you treat them well, they will come back. If you treat them like cows to be milked at will, they will not hesitate to burn you for someone else. The smart businessman is not the one who views their customers are cash-cows to be milked, but rather one that builds up positive relationships with them, so that they won't be inclined to jump ship at the drop of the hat.

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I think we are both on the same page, just speaking a different language.

Anyone who is interested in more reading can check out:

http://www.econlib.org/index.html

it is a good link about all kinds of this stuff from a theoretical perspective - you have to make the jump to a practical application yourself. I think the encyclopedia on that site is the most useful. Anyone who is interested in more reading should try looking up 'Game Theory' in the encyclopedia.

Regards,
Pat

 

[Lee]

Stick around Sean, it should be entertaining :laugh:

 

[moki]

Anyone who is interested in more reading can check out:

http://www.econlib.org/index.html

it is a good link about all kinds of this stuff from a theoretical perspective -

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Now that's pedantic. Anyway, I will settle this for good, I know someone I can ask as to whether TWCigars is an authorized Fuente dealer or not, and will get a definitive answer on it.

If they are not an authorized Fuente dealer, and they are buying their Opus retail and then doing the standard markup above that, then I retract my comments about them. I still find the practice unfortunate, and think their energies could be better spent obtaining a Fuente account, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[SeanGAR]

erm... no.  You sound like someone who just looked up the word "pedantic" in a dictionary, and have zero clue about usage.

Sam used the word properly; he was saying you got no street smarts, no common sense, that you're narrowly focused on picky, peripheral aspects of this argument, not seeing the big picture, etc, etc., and the use of some of the "vocab" words you tossed out didn't change that, but rather made you look pedantic.

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No, Moki, I am surrounded by pedantic pricks daily at work, I know all about the word. "No street smarts" ... like buying Opus X for 30 bucks a stick? You'll have to change the direction of the finger, I'm not that naive.

The big picture is in a free market people can sell products for whatever the market will support. The pedantic viewpoint holds that MSRP is what sellers should use.

My main point, which seems to have gotten lost in this thread, is that unless you can show me that TW has a higher % markup on those cigars than the average plus 2 standard deviations, you really can't be calling them gougers. You can say the prices are ridiculous (which they clearly are), you can suggest people look around more to buy the cigars, but you have no data to prove they are gouging. Their prices on Opus X ARE ridiculous, but that isn't the point I'm arguing (hmmm .... that sounds kinda pedantic.....).

 

[moki]

My main point, which seems to have gotten lost in this thread, is that unless you can show me that TW has a higher % markup on those cigars than the average plus 2 standard deviations, you really can't be calling them gougers.  You can say the prices are ridiculous (which they clearly are), you can suggest people look around more to buy the cigars, but you have no data to prove they are gouging. Their prices on Opus X ARE ridiculous, but that isn't the point I'm arguing (hmmm .... that sounds kinda pedantic.....).

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And that's not pedantic? Oh my... hehe

I don't know where you shop, but many of us DO get their Opus at MSRP. Really. I just picked up a box of Opus X Super Belicosos for $335... look up the MSRP on that. (and hell no, I'm not gonna tell you where I got it... )

So yes, TWCigars is gouging if they are an authorized Fuente dealer. If they aren't, then that's another matter, as I've addressed above.

Either way, I really don't see the point of your arguments here, except to argue... pedantically.

 

[SeanGAR]

(and hell no, I'm not gonna tell you where I got it... )

So yes, TWCigars is gouging if they are an authorized Fuente dealer. If they aren't, then that's another matter, as I've addressed above.

Either way, I really don't see the point of your arguments here, except to argue... pedantically.

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Good price. Does Fuente date those boxes so you know the production date?

 

[moki]

Good price. Does Fuente date those boxes so you know the production date?

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No, but I know when I bought the box, and I know how long Fuente ages Opus before shipping 'em out, so I just date the boxes myself when I get them... I do that for all boxes of cigars I get that don't have boxcodes on 'em.

The only date on Opus boxes is "1992" -- and occasionally you'll get some moron selling "original release Opus" on Yahoo or what have you, thinking that date is the production date. It's not... it's when the "seeds of hope" were planted.

 

[junkman_56]

No, but I know when I bought the box, and I know how long Fuente ages Opus before shipping 'em out, so I just date the boxes myself when I get them... I do that for all boxes of cigars I get that don't have boxcodes on 'em.

Ok, I will bite...
How long does Fuente age Opus (and Hemingway’s) before they are shipped?

 

[moki]

Ok, I will bite...
How long does Fuente age Opus (and Hemingway’s) before they are shipped?

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Hemingways are about 6 months, and Opus are about a year now (used to be 8 months or so). When I say "about" it's because there isn't necessarily a set time... it's when they are ready... and the chef knows when they are ready!

I just date boxes based on when they were received by the local shop or whomever originally bought them... no sense in figuring out the actual rolling date really.

 

[SamClemmons]

You pedantic, pretentious bastids make me howl. A vocabulary doesn't make you smart pal. If you think this is about supply and demand and not the bottom line of a particular cigar shop then the turnip truck driver must have been dozing when you fell off.

seangars, I'd like to encourage you to not contribute in the future as well. Your not posting here is certainly a benefit to everybody involved.

Its pretty clear that you don't actually know what the word "pedantic" means. Here, I'll help you:

pedantic
adjective

Characterized by a narrow concern for book learning and formal rules, without knowledge or experience of practical matters: academic, bookish, donnish, formalistic, inkhorn, literary, pedantical, scholastic.

"Formal rules" sounds like MSRP to me. I'm arguing the opposite position, that people can sell at whatever price they deem worthy. Y'all are arguing for MSRP and are the pedantic ones.

Your suggesting that I leave is a really tempting reason to stick around.

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pedant: a person who makes a display of his learning.

Looks dead on in usage to me. Maybe you should read it again genius. Ask you to leave? Did I say that? I thought I was agreeing with you, sorta welcoming you to do what you whined you were doing anyway. Comprehension isn't your strong suit I guess. I'll try to use less complex sentences in the future.
By all means stay.

NA

 

[MilesMingusMonk]

If the adage "Any publicity is good publicity" rings true, it appears Tobacco World Cigars owes KayakinBoy a few Opus X for his successful promotional work. :thumbs:

 

[moki]

If the adage "Any publicity is good publicity" rings true, it appears Tobacco World Cigars owes KayakinBoy a few Opus X for his successful promotional work. :thumbs:

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F'ing shills...

 

[godfather]

I'm glad to see people aren't giving KB crap for what he's done on this board...otherwise I really think I'd be going insane here... :laugh:

I post on another board and I also think that KB was RIGHT, and TWCigars was very unprofessional / out of line through this whole saga. Too bad the discussion on the board I post on didn't get going like it did here...:laugh:

Ironworker (way to put neuro in his place), SamClem, Leebo, and moki ...good posts. :thumbs:

Never seen any of you where I post (oh wait, I've seen moki and did read about his legendary documentary of smoking 'the chief' :laugh....but it's nice to meet you guys. Definitely looks like there's a good group of people on this board.

 

[AVB]

Jingles will never catch Sam at this rate. :whistling:

 

[SeanGAR]

I'll try to use less complex sentences in the future.

Proper punctuation would be a start :laugh: .

This horse is dead.