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Time for a rule change..?

Rod

Rod

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 4, 2001
Messages
10,992
Location
5D
First Name
Todd
Over the past year or so I've realized the cigar market is far different now than ever before. There are many reasons why the price of cigars has increased, especially Cubans.

I'll get right to it... While our 25+ year-long standing rule of "you are only allowed to sell cigars what you paid for them" has served us well for many years, I think we should consider an update.

If someone purchased a box of Opus X 15 years ago for XX price, and now it's double that (fair market value), the person also had to ensure proper storage and take care of the cigars. I think it would be far more unfair to the seller to have to sell their cigars at such an unrealistic price opposed to the buyer knowing they're getting a properly stored product at a fair price. Sometimes the seller has to sell, but a buyer never "has" to buy. Personally, I would not feel right as a buyer taking advantage of the seller. The main intent behind the rule was to prevent people from buying cigars on black Friday (or at a significant discount) and then turning around only to make 25%+ per box. Perhaps that's the rule change we need to put in place...

We have other rules in place to mitigate people taking advantage of CP and its members, such as having to be a participating member for X months prior to selling. It seems to have worked well over the years.

I always like community buy-in when making a change like this, so if anyone strongly opposes, please let me know. Otherwise, the rules will be updated accordingly next week.

Edit to add: This allows the seller to be compensated for their time/effort/expense in proper storage, and opens the doors to more options for buyers. All without gouging.
 
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Good thoughts, Rod.

We have a very smart, very aware membership, with some very market aware folks watching from the sidelines. I'd suggest people can charge what they want. If they're out of line, no one will buy. If they're crazy, they'll get lit up by the membership. Seems fair to me.

Only concern I have, would be the newbie that may not know what the 'going rate' is on aged or even limited releases. Onus is on them to check; not like there aren't a bunch of folks that would be happy to help, if they'd ask. Stuff from the island south of Miami is just nuts, but there are auction sites and other resources to get a feel for the going rate on just about anything.

Edited to add - once the prices get opened up, we'll have to watch for flippers. Say, someone buys a couple boxes at a screaming price on sale, and then tries to resell them for retail. I don't think that'll be a big problem with our brothers; we'll always have "drive by's" to deal with. They're usually quickly caught and called on the carpet.

....one man's opinion.
 
lucasbuck said:
I think this is a good idea. There are a good number of Brothers here that guard the integrity of this place without fail so I don’t see a problem with the rule change.
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Things have definitely changed since when I joined. I certainly wouldn't sell cigars I've been taking care of for 15+ years for what I paid then. I would also be willing to research what an average auction price is and go middle to lower for a brother here. This would be a win for the buyer considering they pay the auction fees on those sites and not the sellers. Of course there's always room for constructive and friendly conversation when it comes to prices and how someone comes up with them. Just like puts and takes in a pass.

I think Craig put it in perfect perspective when he said something along the lines of if he bought a house in 1977, he certainly wouldn't sell it to you for what he paid then currently. This place will self moderate and call out gougers as it always has.
 
I also think this is a good idea.

To prevent abuse, perhaps we should consider increasing the membership time and/or activity level in order to sell. Of course, if you set the threshold of 6 months and 100 posts for example, someone could created an account and be dormant for 6 months, then manufacture 100 posts in short order to circumnavigate this requirement, but I think it would be obvious if that happens and we would all call it out.
 
Nihon_Ni said:
I also think this is a good idea.

To prevent abuse, perhaps we should consider increasing the membership time and/or activity level in order to sell. Of course, if you set the threshold of 6 months and 100 posts for example, someone could created an account and be dormant for 6 months, then manufacture 100 posts in short order to circumnavigate this requirement, but I think it would be obvious if that happens and we would all call it out.
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I was an admin on a very big computer forum for a decade or so. They had a similar rule, and this scenario most certainly did happen, as the 'For Sale' section on this forum moved very quickly. Easy to spot 'post stuffing' and we simply deleted one or two word posts / replies that fell under that condition. Pretty easy to see.....and not that tough to deal with. Not saying we should start deleting posts, but the behavior is clear, and can be dealt with as the membership thinks best.
 
I agree 100%! Back when the "sell it for what you paid" rule was created you might be talking about 5%-10% between when you bought it and current value, now that could 300%-400%. As everyone here has pointed out, this would be self regulated by the members very well.

Additionally, if I had a lot of really special cigars it would be a shame to exclude my brothers and sisters here from being able to buy something special because of such a rule.

All of that being said, it is yet another testament to what Rod has created here. The fact that he lets the members decide, and the forum polices itself.
 
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1773668615851.png

This 👆 is absolutely a plus for CP

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This 👆 is my concern as well.

My main concern is that all the FB flippers will join here only to make money and not to be members of this Brotherhood that has been built for the making of friendships and sharing with them !!! I mean we all fought for this not to become like "ONLINE HUMIDOR" / another online sales Bulletin Boards. But allowing sales at minimal profit to share is a good thing. Extensive markups associated with strickly cash gain should still not be allowed. That's my opinion.

We will need to keep those who are strictly money motivated in check. Rod has a business model for those that sponsor his hard work and our dedication of BOtL Love.
 
Checked the computer forum I used to help with and their rule is clear:

The FSFT forum has its own set of specific rules and has a required 100 post minimum to participate. FSFT is for contributing members.

Maybe we do four months and 50 meaningful posts...?? Or...??
 
cohibasurfer said:
View attachment 106987
This 👆 is absolutely a plus for CP

View attachment 106988
This 👆 is my concern as well.

My main concern is that all the FB flippers will join here only to make money and not to be members of this Brotherhood that has been built for the making of friendships and sharing with them !!! I mean we all fought for this not to become like "ONLINE HUMIDOR" / another online sales Bulletin Boards. But allowing sales at minimal profit to share is a good thing. Extensive markups associated with strickly cash gain should still not be allowed. That's my opinion.

We will need to keep those who are strictly money motivated in check. Rod has a business model for those that sponsor his hard work and our dedication of BOtL Love.
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I like this Michael and I wonder if @Rod Rod could add a couple steps to the membership process? Must check these boxes prior to acceptance. This might stop the trolls and AI floods?
  1. Must agree to certain T&C's prior to being approved?
    1. Must post introduction before any other posts can be accepted?
    2. Must agree to" no sales" for first XX months?
    3. Agree that after XX months, newbies attempts at sales will be scrutinized by members.
Just a couple thoughts.
 
...buying may be different. Maybe. If a guy wants to buy, wants to build cred, sends his end first...seems reasonable. Maybe 6 mos / 50 good posts to buy, 12 mos / 100 posts to sell. Maybe. Thinking out loud....

Edited to add....intro thread mandatory seems good, and of course every sale gets eyeballed by the membership....
 
FB Flippers. 🤣 No problem, CP caters to those who have been loyal to CP, not trying to go out and stir up new members by any means. You guys are the "mods" -- I'm sure we'll be fine. Because we're now relaxing this rule a bit, in all honesty it's now more fair to both parties, I trust you all will keep a handle on it, and call out anyone who appears to be abusing this privilege.
 
The FB flippers I’ve seen are happy to stay there. I’ve checked a few groups and they sell as fast as they can get them. They also sell for extreme low margins. Amazed it’s even worth their time. Doesn’t seem like a profitable hustle at all to me especially if you consider the high confiscation rate in the past couple years.
 
....I'd like to see an update on the mandatory minimums for buying / selling. Something in the rules the members can refer folks to. Since we indeed are a community, an into thread and a year / 100 posts doesn't seem crazy for a buying requirement. One man's opinion....
 
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