Ventilation

[wasy]

I'm going to be gutting my basement and remodeling it from top to bottom and I want to be able to smoke in there. I know some of you have recently redone areas of your house and I'm curiuos what type of ventilation systems you may have installed and I'd also like to know if your happy with them. Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

 

[Shooter]

Go with something QUIET and that moves alot of air. You have two options ventilate or clean the air. Cleaning keeps the heat/ac in your basement, always seems to be a little louder unless you relocate the cleaner and provide an intake and return....

I am working on my smoking room and have something in mind when I get around to it.

 

[DePasta]

I initially started out with a 150 CFM exhaust fan mounted in the rafters and exhausted out the basement window like this. This fan was too loud and handled 2 cigars OK, I decided to upgrade to a Nutone QT-300 which was quieter and 300 CFM. Make sure you use the right size duct, a friend told me I was OK with 4" round duct with the 150 CFM, but it didn't seem to draw well. I spoke to a HVAC guy and he told me that was too small. Upgraded to 6" and it works like a charm.

Also, purchase a Hepa filter with Carbon filters to absorb the smell. I run the exhaust while I am smoking and a little while afterwards, then I set the timer on the Hepa to run about 12 hours when I leave. The setup has worked very well so far.

Am exploring an ozone generator as well, but not sure if I need it.

 

[puffstuff]

I use an 18" 3800 cfm axial fan from Cincinnati Fan, just barely does the trick . I've tried several different smoke eaters and eliminators and none seemed to work very well after a month or two. They started out good, then I couldn't seem to get rid of the smell. The way I've got it now, the fan is mounted above the drop ceiling, directly in the brick wall. I elbowed it down into a 2x2 ceiling tile with a grate in place of the tile. I built a 2x2 shroud with an 18" hole in the center. Then in between the shroud and the grate, I have a piece of plexiglass so I can expose as much of the fan as I need or close it to leave only 1 inch exposed. When it's cold, we choke it down to an inch or so. It will draw out the smoke from at least 8 cigars burning without drawing out to much air. We put a small space heater in the room and it balances out the temp very well.

 

[Uncle Boo]

I use a Broan exhaust fan vented outside with 4" hardpipe and a Hunter ceiling fan on slow to pull the smoke up to the fan. Here is a shot of the setup.

I painted the cover of the exhaust fan to match the ceiling to make it as inconspicuos as possible. In combination with the fan it does a good job for a small room. The only thing I don't like about the fan is it is noisier than I expected. I listened to them in the store and this was very quiet and had a low sound rating but installed it is a bit louder. It may be because I tried to use all hard surfaces in the room like wood and leather so as not to absorb the smoke smells. I leave it running with the door shut for 1/2 hour or so after I'm done and it clears the room out well.

 

[Lumberg]

Any of you guys experiment with those heat/cold recovery things?

It's basically a bathroom fan that makes the outgoing air give up its heat to the incoming fresh air. It's by no means efficient but it it's a nifty trick.

The replacement air passes over an intercooler type thing.

 

[wasy]

I initially started out with a 150 CFM exhaust fan mounted in the rafters and exhausted out the basement window like this. This fan was too loud and handled 2 cigars OK, I decided to upgrade to a Nutone QT-300 which was quieter and 300 CFM. Make sure you use the right size duct, a friend told me I was OK with 4" round duct with the 150 CFM, but it didn't seem to draw well. I spoke to a HVAC guy and he told me that was too small. Upgraded to 6" and it works like a charm.

Also, purchase a Hepa filter with Carbon filters to absorb the smell. I run the exhaust while I am smoking and a little while afterwards, then I set the timer on the Hepa to run about 12 hours when I leave. The setup has worked very well so far.

Am exploring an ozone generator as well, but not sure if I need it.

Dan,
How big is your room and how many guys with cigars can the Nutone handle?

 

[wasy]

I use an 18" 3800 cfm axial fan from Cincinnati Fan, just barely does the trick . I've tried several different smoke eaters and eliminators and none seemed to work very well after a month or two. They started out good, then I couldn't seem to get rid of the smell. The way I've got it now, the fan is mounted above the drop ceiling, directly in the brick wall. I elbowed it down into a 2x2 ceiling tile with a grate in place of the tile. I built a 2x2 shroud with an 18" hole in the center. Then in between the shroud and the grate, I have a piece of plexiglass so I can expose as much of the fan as I need or close it to leave only 1 inch exposed. When it's cold, we choke it down to an inch or so. It will draw out the smoke from at least 8 cigars burning without drawing out to much air. We put a small space heater in the room and it balances out the temp very well.

Al,
8 cigars no problem? Is it loud? How big is the area where you smoke?

I've got a fairly large space, I'd guess it's 25'x20' so I'm thinking bigger is better but I don't want to suck the heat/ac out of the room or have something so loud you can't hear the football game.

 

[Gonz]

Do you live near any towns/cities that recently went smoke free? If so, then I'll bet you could find a good deal on a smoke eater or fan from one of the bars that no longer needs it.

 

[discdog]

Wasy I am in the process of doing the same thing right now. My room is 14' x 22'. After spending a lot of time in various shops I came up with a combination that seems to work great. First is the: PanasonicFV-40VQ3 exhaust fan with a 6 inch duct vented outside. Second is a Air Quality Engineering portable unit:
http://www.air-quality-eng.com/pm-400.php

The Panasonic unit is the most quiet unit on the market, and the pm-400 on the medium setting is unnoticable at normal conversation levels. On HIGH, you do need to raise your voice, but it is still in the comfortable range.

By the way, after spending many hours in Al's shop, he has a very efficient system, but ti will suck the conditioned air out of the shop as well as the smoke. I also think his will handle more than ten cigars going full blast.
Hope this is helpful.

 

[wasy]

Wasy I am in the process of doing the same thing right now. My room is 14' x 22'. After spending a lot of time in various shops I came up with a combination that seems to work great. First is the: PanasonicFV-40VQ3 exhaust fan with a 6 inch duct vented outside. Second is a Air Quality Engineering portable unit:
http://www.air-quality-eng.com/pm-400.php

The Panasonic unit is the most quiet unit on the market, and the pm-400 on the medium setting is unnoticable at normal conversation levels. On HIGH, you do need to raise your voice, but it is still in the comfortable range.

By the way, after spending many hours in Al's shop, he has a very efficient system, but ti will suck the conditioned air out of the shop as well as the smoke. I also think his will handle more than ten cigars going full blast.
Hope this is helpful.

If you don't mind me asking, what does that portable unit go for? I was looking at this unit which is about $750,
Airpura

 

[puffstuff]

I use an 18" 3800 cfm axial fan from Cincinnati Fan, just barely does the trick . I've tried several different smoke eaters and eliminators and none seemed to work very well after a month or two. They started out good, then I couldn't seem to get rid of the smell. The way I've got it now, the fan is mounted above the drop ceiling, directly in the brick wall. I elbowed it down into a 2x2 ceiling tile with a grate in place of the tile. I built a 2x2 shroud with an 18" hole in the center. Then in between the shroud and the grate, I have a piece of plexiglass so I can expose as much of the fan as I need or close it to leave only 1 inch exposed. When it's cold, we choke it down to an inch or so. It will draw out the smoke from at least 8 cigars burning without drawing out to much air. We put a small space heater in the room and it balances out the temp very well.

Al,
8 cigars no problem? Is it loud? How big is the area where you smoke?

I've got a fairly large space, I'd guess it's 25'x20' so I'm thinking bigger is better but I don't want to suck the heat/ac out of the room or have something so loud you can't hear the football game.

Al, you can barely hear it, that's why I have it up in the ceiling. Even if it wasn't, it's not very loud. The bathroom fan is louder. It's way more than we need for 700 sq feet. If I open it all the way it easily keeps the entire store clear. It's a lot larger than we need, 14" would have been more than enough.

 

[DePasta]

I initially started out with a 150 CFM exhaust fan mounted in the rafters and exhausted out the basement window like this. This fan was too loud and handled 2 cigars OK, I decided to upgrade to a Nutone QT-300 which was quieter and 300 CFM. Make sure you use the right size duct, a friend told me I was OK with 4" round duct with the 150 CFM, but it didn't seem to draw well. I spoke to a HVAC guy and he told me that was too small. Upgraded to 6" and it works like a charm.

Also, purchase a Hepa filter with Carbon filters to absorb the smell. I run the exhaust while I am smoking and a little while afterwards, then I set the timer on the Hepa to run about 12 hours when I leave. The setup has worked very well so far.

Am exploring an ozone generator as well, but not sure if I need it.

Dan,
How big is your room and how many guys with cigars can the Nutone handle?

Room is 16' X 20', I have had 4 guys with cigars at once and it cleared them out pretty well.

-D

 

[CigarStone]

I am in process of the same thing right now. Before I button everything up and do the finish work I have a couple questions:

The room is 300 square feet and will be closed off from the rest of the basement when need be (except, there are louvered doors between this room and the furnace (per code) . In combination with the exhaust fans, one over the bumper pool/poker table and one over the bar, I plan to use one of the ozone machines you see in bars.

1) Does anyone have any experience with this combination?
2) Any problem with your furnace sucking up, and spreading through the house, the odors until the fans and ozone machine can clear it out?
3) This room will be red oak and drywall. Red oak from floor to 44” topped with a red oak bar rail, drywall from 44” to ceiling, and red oak ceiling. Any long term odor absorption issues?

 

[denverdog]

I am in process of the same thing right now. Before I button everything up and do the finish work I have a couple questions:

The room is 300 square feet and will be closed off from the rest of the basement when need be (except, there are louvered doors between this room and the furnace (per code) . In combination with the exhaust fans, one over the bumper pool/poker table and one over the bar, I plan to use one of the ozone machines you see in bars.

1) Does anyone have any experience with this combination?
2) Any problem with your furnace sucking up, and spreading through the house, the odors until the fans and ozone machine can clear it out?
3) This room will be red oak and drywall. Red oak from floor to 44” topped with a red oak bar rail, drywall from 44” to ceiling, and red oak ceiling. Any long term odor absorption issues?

I use the Nutone QT300 and a Hepa Purifier and my space is a bit larger then what you are doing. So far it is doing quite well although I relocated it to be closer to a majority of the smoke. My basement is unfinished so I have had some issues with the furnace sucking up the air before it is cleared and/or purified. I am planning to close it off to avoid this, in the meantime I just turn it off while I am smoking. Good luck to you.

 

[Maggs44]

Here is some info that might help pick out the right vent.

Typical rate of exchange for a boiler room is 1-3 minutes per air change, a restaurant is 3-10 mins per change, bathroom 2-5 mins per change.

Calculate cubic feet and divide by mins per change desired for vent cfm.

CFM's are listed at 0 sp (staic pressure), so if you have air restrictions on discharge (duct runs, louvers etc) or intake, the cfm exausted will be less. (Its a complicated formula).

For quiteness, look for a sone rating. 1 sone is aprox the sound of an average refigerator when the compressor is running, 2 sones is double and so on.

For every 750 cfm exausted you need 1 square foot of air intake (you can't exauste from a sealed up space).

 

[CigarStone]

Here is some info that might help pick out the right vent.

Typical rate of exchange for a boiler room is 1-3 minutes per air change, a restaurant is 3-10 mins per change, bathroom 2-5 mins per change.

Calculate cubic feet and divide by mins per change desired for vent cfm.

CFM's are listed at 0 sp (staic pressure), so if you have air restrictions on discharge (duct runs, louvers etc) or intake, the cfm exausted will be less. (Its a complicated formula).

For quiteness, look for a sone rating. 1 sone is aprox the sound of an average refigerator when the compressor is running, 2 sones is double and so on.

For every 750 cfm exausted you need 1 square foot of air intake (you can't exauste from a sealed up space).

Great info, thanks

Any experience with this trade-off? I can put 3 100CFM exhaust fans in or 1 300CFM. Obviously, three will allow me to pull the air from the smoke concentration locations but will probably be more noisy.

 

[Maggs44]

Great info, thanks

Any experience with this trade-off? I can put 3 100CFM exhaust fans in or 1 300CFM. Obviously, three will allow me to pull the air from the smoke concentration locations but will probably be more noisy.

I would think the 3 fans would be more noisy, and alot more work installing. The air change per room would still be the same, but with the 3 fans the smoke has less distance to "travel", thus less chance for smoke smell to attach itself to furniture etc.

It's amazing how the smell can attaching itself to objects. I live alone, so I don't have an air cleaner. One time I did some research for a friend and she could smell the cigar smoke on the paper, even though my desk is 10 feet away from where I smoke.

 

[roscoe]

There is only one way to properly address the smoke issue. Exhausting the air is not cost effective as it removes heat and A/C from the room. You must also bring in fresh air while exhausting the old. If it's 20 deg outside.....well....I don't have to go on.

Electrostatic smoke eaters are really the way to handle the issue. Someone posted Air Quality Engineering. You may want to call them and talk to Bill about your situation. They have a rep in Fords, NJ http://www.cleanairco.com/contact/contactinfo.html you can speak with Bob. He has some used C-12 units but gets about 5-600 each for them.

As mentioned earlier, there are literally hundreds of commercial smoke eaters in NJ that are not being used. If they can work in your environment I would suggest you start looking around. You can pick up a $1800 unit for a couple of hundred or less. I'm going to look at two in Fair Lawn this week and I think the guy just wants to give them to me to get rid of them.

We picked up a total of 9 AQE Smokemaster C-12's for our club. They cost new around 1800 and change. We paid a total of 2000 for all 9.

Roscoe
The Metropolitan Society
http://www.metrocigar.com

 

[smellysell]

I use an 18" 3800 cfm axial fan from Cincinnati Fan, just barely does the trick . I've tried several different smoke eaters and eliminators and none seemed to work very well after a month or two. They started out good, then I couldn't seem to get rid of the smell. The way I've got it now, the fan is mounted above the drop ceiling, directly in the brick wall. I elbowed it down into a 2x2 ceiling tile with a grate in place of the tile. I built a 2x2 shroud with an 18" hole in the center. Then in between the shroud and the grate, I have a piece of plexiglass so I can expose as much of the fan as I need or close it to leave only 1 inch exposed. When it's cold, we choke it down to an inch or so. It will draw out the smoke from at least 8 cigars burning without drawing out to much air. We put a small space heater in the room and it balances out the temp very well.

A restaraunt I worked in had smoke eaters that worked great, but needed to be cleaned regularly and it was a nasty process. That's probably the route I will be going though.