Cigar Afficionado and Cubans

[highdudgeon]

Okay, I did a search on this, and found nothing. There is a brief forum entry on the CA web site that doesn't answer the questions. They are:

1. Okay, ostensibly CA can review Cubanos overseas and call it a day. But they don't. They obviously do it at home and, obviously, they don't buy retail. How is this permissible for print publication? Isn't it like saying "here we are, breaking the law, come get us?"

2. On their site there is video review of the Bolivar Royal Coronas. They are sitting in a bar in Manhattan with a box of the cigars in full view and smoking them, to boot. I mean, how is this possible? Is it just such small scale that it is overlooked? I would think that the government, in their infinite wisdom, would choose to make an example of them.

Any ideas? I am NOT asking for or about sources. I am asking how THE major industry/consumer publication in North America gets away with stuff that would get most people into trouble.

?????

 

[grateful1]

Who's 'reviewing' the cigars? Is it an international reviewer or is it an American reviewer?

Who's to say the box wasn't purchased by an international and given to the group for shoots?

Look at the golfers on TV - some have Cuban cigars.....why are they not questioned?
Because it may have just been a gift.

Who's to say the photo wasn't edited to include a box? - not likely!

American's can not purchase cuban products.

Search on the forum some more(try embargo) - you'll find plenty of links that lead to the terms of the embargo - read up and you'll have the answers.

 

[NiteSeer]

Let sleeping dogs lay.

 

[highdudgeon]

Grateful1 == look, I find this ironic, because deadheads are supposed to be all mellow and what-not.

So, here's the thing: I asked what is to an interesting question. Open conversation. Like chatting with friends over lunch.

You come back to me, as you have before, with an incredibly condescending and frankly bullying post that provided, as usual, absolutely no information. Look up the embargo? I can guarantee you that I have far more experience in international relations, jurisprudence, and diplomatic history than you do. I work and teach in that realm. And you? You just pontificate on forums and, if you happen to know something, just spout off a condescending remark rather than saying "oh, well, I know this and that, and you might find this or that interesting." But, not, you're just your typically un-mellow self. Thanks for the intrusion into my day.

 

[lordlister]

Grateful1 == look, I find this ironic, because deadheads are supposed to be all mellow and what-not.

So, here's the thing: I asked what is to an interesting question. Open conversation. Like chatting with friends over lunch.

You come back to me, as you have before, with an incredibly condescending and frankly bullying post that provided, as usual, absolutely no information. Look up the embargo? I can guarantee you that I have far more experience in international relations, jurisprudence, and diplomatic history than you do. I work and teach in that realm. And you? You just pontificate on forums and, if you happen to know something, just spout off a condescending remark rather than saying "oh, well, I know this and that, and you might find this or that interesting." But, not, you're just your typically un-mellow self. Thanks for the intrusion into my day.

I get the impresion that you're not happy with the reply you got? I'm not sure what it is, but there's something about your post that tells me that you're angry. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Infinity]

Holy crap.

When I was reading Gary's (grateful1) post, I was thinking how nice that he was taking his time to give you his opinion.

You are making assumptions on what you see and so is he.

You also make an assumption that he is "incredibly condescending". I don't see it that way. What I do see is an arrogant and rude post
from you. Read his post again, only this time, look for the positive and not, as you did, preconceive his intentions even before you read his post.

Brian

 

[tone-ny]

Grateful1 == look, I find this ironic, because deadheads are supposed to be all mellow and what-not.

So, here's the thing: I asked what is to an interesting question. Open conversation. Like chatting with friends over lunch.

You come back to me, as you have before, with an incredibly condescending and frankly bullying post that provided, as usual, absolutely no information. Look up the embargo? I can guarantee you that I have far more experience in international relations, jurisprudence, and diplomatic history than you do. I work and teach in that realm. And you? You just pontificate on forums and, if you happen to know something, just spout off a condescending remark rather than saying "oh, well, I know this and that, and you might find this or that interesting." But, not, you're just your typically un-mellow self. Thanks for the intrusion into my day.

Wow, now that wasn't what I expected. If you have a question like this, Cigar Aficionado has a forum that you can pose your question. I'm sure Mr's. Shanken and Suckling will answer all your questions.

I don't see where Grateful1 bullied you about this. He asked you some more questions and asked you to do a search on embargo. Other than that his post was benign. Yours on the other hand looks like a person looking for an Internet exchange. Re-read your post and see how offensive it is in relation to what was posted.

I guess Brian and I were posting at the same time!

 

[Ginseng]

high-d,

Don't take offense at Gary's posting style. He has a dry sense of humor, sometimes, and can occasionally trip into inscrutability. Throw in a dash of sarcasm here and there and you have a mix that takes some familiarity to decode with confidence. If you hang out and get to know Gary, you'll find that he cares about the members and the welfare of the forum.

I will admit that way back, I thought I had a problem with Gary. But we communicated and now see pretty much eye to eye. He's a good man and in this case, raised some questions for you and the rest of us to think about.

Give it a chance. I predict that you will, like I did, find him well worth knowing.

Wilkey

Edited to echo Tone-ny's post. Your response was out of proportion. If indeed you are as learned and laid back as a deadhead is expected to be, perhaps a few minutes away from the keyboard to consider the more charitable and constructive interpretations would have served you well.

 

[Brickhouse]

What just happened here?

Legitimate post by highdudgeon with a legitimate response by Gary.

I'm confused how this got turned upside down within three posts.

 

[Ginseng]

What just happened here?

Legitimate post by highdudgeon with a legitimate response by Gary.

I'm confused how this got turned upside down within three posts.

Testosterone?

E-Penis?

Not enough caffeine?

Too much caffeine?

Not enough nookie?

Time of the month?

Take your pick! :laugh:

Wyatt, hd just doesnt' know and love Gary like we know and love Gary.

Wilkey

 

[mmburtch]

I think Gary should just pour himself a cup of mushroom tea, sit back with a worn out copy of American Beauty and get his mellowness back in order

 

[tigger]

I think Gary should just pour himself a cup of mushroom tea, sit back with a worn out copy of American Beauty and get his mellowness back in order

LMAO!!!

hd -

I hope in reviewing your previous post that you'll step back and realize that what Gary wrote wasn't what you thought it was, because it isn't.

Unlike Wilkey, I DO have a problem with Grateful1 - he keeps offering me hospitiality and good times that I don't have time to accept.


Having smoked with him a few times and done more than a couple of boxsplits, etc with him, there's no doubt in my mind that he's one of the good guys.

Kindly reread your post and let us know if you've revised your thoughts.

edited to add:

I'm certain he's not looking for kudos for it, but do a search on "Ellington BOTL" to find out what kind of a guy Gary is.

 

[Mike33]

You come back to me, as you have before, with an incredibly condescending and frankly bullying post that provided, as usual, absolutely no information. Look up the embargo? I can guarantee you that I have far more experience in international relations, jurisprudence, and diplomatic history than you do. I work and teach in that realm. And you? You just pontificate on forums and, if you happen to know something, just spout off a condescending remark rather than saying "oh, well, I know this and that, and you might find this or that interesting." But, not, you're just your typically un-mellow self. Thanks for the intrusion into my day.

Pot calling the kettle there eh?

While I have no horse in this race, I think Gary is a jerk. Just throwing that out there

 

[rob300c]

If you read too deep into Gary's posts and make inferences and assumptions then it'll definately freak you out!

If you meet Gary he will freak you out...
With his generosity and kindness.

He lets a crazy 265 lb Hawaiian he met on the internet sleep with his cigars!

-Rob

ps. not Hawaiian but I have been accused of it!

 

[Ginseng]

While I have no horse in this race, I think Gary is a jerk. Just throwing that out there

Now let's make sure the viewers are getting the right impression of Gary. I don't think he's as much a jerk as he is a dick.

And Tim, always so contrary.

Wilkey

 

[Infinity]

If you read too deep into Gary's posts and make inferences and assumptions then it'll definately freak you out!

If you meet Gary he will freak you out...
With his generosity and kindness.

He lets a crazy 265 lb Hawaiian he met on the internet sleep with his cigars!

-Rob

ps. not Hawaiian but I have been accused of it!

Not sure who the weird one is here, you Rob for sleeping with Gary's cigars or Gary, allowing you to sleep with his cigars. Strange bed fellows for sure! :laugh:

Brian

 

[jfields]

HD..........You and I talk quite a bit, so I think you know me as someone who wants to be a positive person. Or, calls it like it is.

I read Gary's post, and did not see anything in it that was negative toward you. I think you might be just taking his style the wrong way. He's just the cut and dry type, with the ocassional funny humor poking through once and a while.

I know you felt he gave you a hard time on your very first post here. Do you think you might be overly sensitive from that experience.


Oh! Gary is more of a dick than he is a jerk...........I always wanted to be able to say that.

 

[badhangover]

Who's 'reviewing' the cigars? Is it an international reviewer or is it an American reviewer?

Who's to say the box wasn't purchased by an international and given to the group for shoots?

Look at the golfers on TV - some have Cuban cigars.....why are they not questioned?
Because it may have just been a gift.

Who's to say the photo wasn't edited to include a box? - not likely!

American's can not purchase cuban products.

Search on the forum some more(try embargo) - you'll find plenty of links that lead to the terms of the embargo - read up and you'll have the answers.

Possible internet tiff aside, the original poster does pose a question of legitimate curiousity. cA is a NYC corporation and I do not think Shanken/Mott/Savona, et al, are of foreign citizenship. Even if they are, the fact that cA is an American company and its officers and employees are reviewing Cuban products for commercial purposes should expose them to embargo sanctions. I believe Hilton (or one of the other hotel chains) recently ran afoul of "the man" for Cuban transactions. I think Expedia travel (again, or one of the other online travel agencies) as well. I'm too lazy at the moment to research the particulars.

It does not matter if they bought them or given them by others legally able to buy them. It is my understanding that no American, or American company, may possess Cuban products or otherwise deal in goods or services that financially benefit Cuba. If "caught", it triggers an affirmative defense onus that requires the person and/or corporation to prove they did not purchase the goods or services themselves as well. Just ask someone who has ever been on the short end of a seizure or OFAC correspondence/action.

Who's to say why celebrities and politicians seem to get a free pass while the Joe Schmoes of America get hassled by OFAC? The world ain't always a pretty or a fair place. Que sera, sera.

 

[grateful1]

This is the part that has to be addressed. Possession is not the issue...it's procurement.
edit - It looks like was can't get them from outside of the US - BUT, it doesn't say whether we can possess them INSIDE!

From the link on CA:
"A: In our reading of the law, there is no sanction against possessing a Cuban cigar in the United States. The law specifically stipulates that it is illegal to purchase a Cuban cigar and bring it into the United States. "

If I am incorrect, please show me.

As far as 'financial' matters( ie the Hilton incident)..that's in another section of the embargo rules.

I previously found this out by reading the embargo policy.

I may not have read it all or understand it all...however, when Wilkey did his 'Letters' thread and when others asked a similar question...I did what I try to do most often - go to the source - the Gov't website on the rules of the embargo!

I haven't read it in some time - there may be an update....but I don't think so.

Now, why did I suggest to 'search' again in my previous post - because this has all been discussed.

Linky to OFAC
Linky to : 'What you need to know about the U.S. Embargo!' <---PDF


-------------------------------
add:

Hmmm.....interesting letter. < -----this is the most straight forward answer - however, it still is left to interpretation.

Say - if a foreigner brought cigars in...and gave them one to try...would that be a crime?


May ANYONE bring Cuban Cigars into the USA?

To get to the basics of the question - how can some people get away with it.....my answer is "Money and Power!"
(it's also - Who cares!)

(I edited because I wasn't done drafting when I posted....sorry!)

 

[tigger]

dick :whistling: