Alterior Motives

[sir-smokes-a-lot]

You can get discounts from retailors for buying a bunch of boxes?
I have done a few group buys, including one on-going one of most robustos. Have switched between two retailors and they have never mentioned anything about getting extras or any extra discount, other than that listed on their sites.

For me, doing GBs is a way to try out different cigars without buying a whole box for myself. It is also cheaper than buying them as singles off of sites.

 

[Ginseng]

I'm right with you on both accounts, Sir.

Wilkey

You can get discounts from retailors for buying a bunch of boxes?
I have done a few group buys, including one on-going one of most robustos. Have switched between two retailors and they have never mentioned anything about getting extras or any extra discount, other than that listed on their sites.

For me, doing GBs is a way to try out different cigars without buying a whole box for myself. It is also cheaper than buying them as singles off of sites.

[snapback]252812[/snapback]​

 

[Matt R]

Anytime there is money involved, there is someone who will take advantage of the situation. Group Buys for a profit are not what being a part of the community is about. But, I say that with a bit of hesitation, because if you enter into a financial agreement, you should know what you are getting for your money. So, I will subscribe to the "moki theory", on this one. With this board at least, there are enough people here who can answer almost any question about the group buys that are being offered.

Box passes are different, though I understand the point. And, it is different on this board, as you can kind of watch and see who participates and how they participate in passes. If I guy never participates in other passes, but hosts quite a few, then there's a marker that needs to be looked at. It would seem to me that they are in some way, making out better for themselves. If those same people host a lot of passes, but also participate in a lot, then more than likely it evens out at some point. That's what is different about Cigar Pass, since that is the main reason this board was started. I haven't been in a pass or hosted one for years, mainly because of the time it has always taken to prepare and track. Never have I expected more than I sent out, but rarely have I gotten back less than I sent out. So, it's a double edged sword and harder to really define what the terms should dictate. So, I think if there is obvious intent to throw together a pass just to get more back from the participants, the host should not only be chastised for it, but also should be watched very carefully in the future.

 

[The Master]

Matt, good post. I would like to see how many people would do a pass if there was a rule in place to not have a host bag. I am obviously very jaded when it comes to peoples motives for holding a pass. Must be all my years spent in sales where almost every buyer is a liar. LOL

 

[NorCalCigarLover]

Matt, good post. I would like to see how many people would do a pass if there was a rule in place to not have a host bag. I am obviously very jaded when it comes to peoples motives for holding a pass. Must be all my years spent in sales where almost every buyer is a liar. LOL

[snapback]252992[/snapback]​

Here you go you jaded salesman you, I volunteer to host one .... you in?

 

[grand cru no 2]

Matt, good post. I would like to see how many people would do a pass if there was a rule in place to not have a host bag. I am obviously very jaded when it comes to peoples motives for holding a pass. Must be all my years spent in sales where almost every buyer is a liar. LOL

[snapback]252992[/snapback]​

I started a pass not long after joining CigarPass and had no idea about any host bag. I started the pass simply because I liked the idea of it. When the pass returned there was no host bag and I was very happy with the result. In fact I thought guys went above and a beyond with their light takes and heavy puts.

I participate in other peoples passes often and try to pay it forwad as much as I can. I just have to believe that this is the general nature of the members of this board, not to take advantage of other members.

 

[KayakinBoy]

I don't know what buy/split/pass has gone bad, but I hope it'll be fixed.

When I started my pass, the only thing I really wanted to do is exchange with new members and give them a chance to try things out of my stash. I never expected a host bag, ask for one, or start one. I personally agree with CC and I'll just add more usually, before addding to the host bag.

As for buys and splits, I've never made a gain. I've taken a little lose here or there, but I'd rather lose a doller or two mailing, if given the chance to share cigars and try new ones.

Recently with my BC Ekans noticed he could get them cheaper in Finland, and I told him I didn't want him to feel ripped off, and the cigars are on there way. He's already paid (I've had great people with my buyer's club) and told me instead of waisting money in paypal fees, keep it and save it for the next buy.

I personally feel that anyone who would take advantage of people in box splits of buyer clubs needs to be outed. It's wrong and people join wanting to try sticks they don't often try. Atleast that's what I started mine.

 

[Matt R]

Matt, good post. I would like to see how many people would do a pass if there was a rule in place to not have a host bag. I am obviously very jaded when it comes to peoples motives for holding a pass. Must be all my years spent in sales where almost every buyer is a liar. LOL

[snapback]252992[/snapback]​

Harris, I believe it would cut pass hosts in half, even on this board. I don't think you history in sales has jaded you though. I think this is just the way our culture is today. In business, I don't neccesarily have a problem with it either. But, in a community that is based on a trust between it's members, it is wrong to take advantage of the membership.

 

[AVB]

As a consumer I always thought that every salesperson is a liar. I think majority opinion leans that way too. :0

Must be all my years spent in sales where almost every buyer is a liar. LOL

[snapback]252992[/snapback]​

 

[ggiese]

Matt, good post. I would like to see how many people would do a pass if there was a rule in place to not have a host bag. I am obviously very jaded when it comes to peoples motives for holding a pass. Must be all my years spent in sales where almost every buyer is a liar. LOL

[snapback]252992[/snapback]​

I started a pass not long after joining CigarPass and had no idea about any host bag. I started the pass simply because I liked the idea of it. When the pass returned there was no host bag and I was very happy with the result. In fact I thought guys went above and a beyond with their light takes and heavy puts.

I participate in other peoples passes often and try to pay it forwad as much as I can. I just have to believe that this is the general nature of the members of this board, not to take advantage of other members.

[snapback]253009[/snapback]​

Same here, Harris - the last pass I hosted had no "host bag", but there were a couple of surprises in the box at the end... I neither expected it, nor did I ask for it. Not that I wasn't pleased...

And I am asked to participate in a number of box passes. I'm kinda with MattR on this - it's a pain in the butt tracking and keeping up with the passes. I do like to participate because I like to pay back those bastids who have beaten me into submission with their generosity... :laugh: And I am mindful that, even though it's a minor pain sometimes, I should be gracious and participate when asked. And I do. To me - it's the "right" thing to do - it's an integral part of being in this community.

And NEVER - in any of the box passes or PIF's I've ever been involved in have I used the pass as a way of getting rid of the cigars I don't like. To me - that's VERY tacky. I have been known to drop my "less than desireable" cigars in a box and send them to people I know would enjoy them (yes - there are those out there that like the "less than desireable" cigars...). But, in all honesty, there are very few "less than desirable" cigars in my humidor. Remember - most of what I smoke comes from bombs, trades, passes, box splits, group buys and my local B&M. So - being the community that this is (a pretty honorable community) - very little I get is not of high quality, or at least very smokeable.

I have not had similar experiences on other boards. I have been witness to some very strange deals - and wonder why someone is allowed to get away with it (i.e. - taking 6 cigars from the pass, and putting in 15 cigars - equally worth $100, but not cigar for cigar). You end up with all the Opus', Edicion de Silvio's, high end Padron's, desireable ISOM's, etc. being taken, and a bunch of JR Alts and other bundled cigars being put in their place. To me - something is just terribly wrong with that... And the board does not allow members to complain about that. I'm sorry - that does not make the pass enjoyable for me.

I've even had individuals in my passes say they want to trade out a much lesser cigar for one of the premiums. I say skip on the trade - do something else instead - and I'll ship you the premium if you really want to try it. To me - that's the way to make it fair to the other participants.

But, Harris - I think it gets back to your sketicism and questioning of motives. I believe if you were confident all would come out in the wash - you'd probably want to participate. If you didn't feel like others were bent on taking advantage of you, you may be interested in participating. I know there is very little you can't get - so there really would be no need to participate - but maybe there is something in that box pass that may appeal to you. I'd hate to think that you don't in some way say to yourself - "I'd really like to try that, but I'm skeptical of the participants motives...".

As hard as it is - and as PO'd as some people get about the "bickering", the fact remains I believe this board has a core of some very honest, caring and generous members. And I hope you see that as a sign to you that you can confidently participate in these activities.

But the absolute beauty of this board is - you can participate and be accepted in the community WITHOUT participating in box passes, group buys, box splits, PIF's, etc. - that is not a requirement for being a member of this community.

 

[ggiese]

Matt, good post. I would like to see how many people would do a pass if there was a rule in place to not have a host bag. I am obviously very jaded when it comes to peoples motives for holding a pass. Must be all my years spent in sales where almost every buyer is a liar. LOL

[snapback]252992[/snapback]​

I started a pass not long after joining CigarPass and had no idea about any host bag. I started the pass simply because I liked the idea of it. When the pass returned there was no host bag and I was very happy with the result. In fact I thought guys went above and a beyond with their light takes and heavy puts.

I participate in other peoples passes often and try to pay it forwad as much as I can. I just have to believe that this is the general nature of the members of this board, not to take advantage of other members.

[snapback]253009[/snapback]​

Same here, Harris - the last pass I hosted had no "host bag", but there were a couple of surprises in the box at the end... I neither expected it, nor did I ask for it. Not that I wasn't pleased...

And I am asked to participate in a number of box passes. I'm kinda with MattR on this - it's a pain in the butt tracking and keeping up with the passes. I do like to participate because I like to pay back those bastids who have beaten me into submission with their generosity... :laugh: And I am mindful that, even though it's a minor pain sometimes, I should be gracious and participate when asked. And I do. To me - it's the "right" thing to do - it's an integral part of being in this community.

And NEVER - in any of the box passes or PIF's I've ever been involved in have I used the pass as a way of getting rid of the cigars I don't like. To me - that's VERY tacky. I have been known to drop my "less than desireable" cigars in a box and send them to people I know would enjoy them (yes - there are those out there that like the "less than desireable" cigars...). But, in all honesty, there are very few "less than desirable" cigars in my humidor. Remember - most of what I smoke comes from bombs, trades, passes, box splits, group buys and my local B&M. So - being the community that this is (a pretty honorable community) - very little I get is not of high quality, or at least very smokeable.

I have not had similar experiences on other boards. I have been witness to some very strange deals - and wonder why someone is allowed to get away with it (i.e. - taking 6 cigars from the pass, and putting in 15 cigars - equally worth $100, but not cigar for cigar). You end up with all the Opus', Edicion de Silvio's, high end Padron's, desireable ISOM's, etc. being taken, and a bunch of JR Alts and other bundled cigars being put in their place. To me - something is just terribly wrong with that... And the board does not allow members to complain about that. I'm sorry - that does not make the pass enjoyable for me.

I've even had individuals in my passes say they want to trade out a much lesser cigar for one of the premiums. I say skip on the trade - do something else instead - and I'll ship you the premium if you really want to try it. To me - that's the way to make it fair to the other participants.

But, Harris - I think it gets back to your sketicism and questioning of motives. I believe if you were confident all would come out in the wash - you'd probably want to participate. If you didn't feel like others were bent on taking advantage of you, you may be interested in participating. I know there is very little you can't get - so there really would be no need to participate - but maybe there is something in that box pass that may appeal to you. I'd hate to think that you don't in some way say to yourself - "I'd really like to try that, but I'm skeptical of the participants motives...".

As hard as it is - and as PO'd as some people get about the "bickering", the fact remains I believe this board has a core of some very honest, caring and generous members. And I hope you see that as a sign to you that you can confidently participate in these activities.

But the absolute beauty of this board is - you can participate and be accepted in the community WITHOUT participating in box passes, group buys, box splits, PIF's, etc. - that is not a requirement for being a member of this community.

 

[Mr Peat]

And here I am still trying to get on my first pass. :thumbs:

 

[AVB]

Another question arises if there is "anterior" motives or "ulterior" ones. They aren't the same.

 

[Lumberg]

Wow this topic was kind of out of the blue. The concept of someone hosting a box split to make a significant amount of money on CP never occurred to me.

I tend to be pretty cheap and think I am good at finding good deals. So I start box splits only when I think I have found a very good deal on the item in question, and still don't want to buy the whole box.

There are times due to rounding (either in the calculations or in peoples' payments) that I come ahead a few bucks, and then of course ther are times when say shipping turns out to be higher than I guessed or there are related unanticipated fees, and I come out a few bucks behind.

If someone is offering to host a split of something I'm interested, I always do research and see if I can find it cheaper. I've also offered to host splits where a member has been a litle sharper than I and suggested a cheaper source, much to the benefit of everyone in the split.

To me the advantage of being a split host is establishing a business relationship with a company, getting the points on my credit card, and getting my choice of the sticks (assuming some aren't damaged, in which case as host I of course have to take them). That's plenty to be worth hosting a split every once in a while. Even then however it also depends on the participants, and it can easily turn into an experience that wasn't worth the trouble.

As far as passes go, the main thing I have always understood is that it's OK for the host to get back a little better than he sent out (not through host bags but through simple puts and takes) because he is the one bearing the brunt of the risk in the operation, as it's his stuff that is lost if the pass is stolen/lost/whatever. So if you're willing to bear a little risk, then it's OK to get a little reward. However I don't think it approaches a level where it could be anywhere near feasible for someone to become a full-time cigar passer (I would imagine it's no more than $10-20 gain per pass), so I don't think that's a big deal.

I do however remember once some guy mentioned that he was starting to run low on cigars and was going to start a pass to increase his holdings, and he was pilloried for explicitly stating that his only reason for planning to do that pass was to profit for it.

Anyway interesting topic, now that it's started.

 

[SamClemmons]

Good Lord. You people really need to work on your communication skills. Two or three points should not take 300+ words. Less is more.

NA

 

[bfreebern]

LMAO, thank you NA!

 

[MiamiCubano]

Good Lord. You people really need to work on your communication skills. Two or three points should not take 300+ words. Less is more.

NA

[snapback]253124[/snapback]​

Amen.

 

[The Master]

ggiese, the reason I have never got into a box pass or a group buy is because I am very lazy and hate going to the post office. It is also the reason I very rarely trade. lol

 

[cletus]

Let me start with saying that I am grateful for the people that got me involved in smokes, which includes the various people of this board.
I have been part of various trades, passes, and bombs.
Not a single one was tainted with greed.
I'm not sure what other boards some of u hang out on, but that doesn't go on around here.

I think some people are missing the entire concept, they should attempt to pass forward the kindness that someone showed them in the first place.

I believe part of that is with trade, passes(when they are ready), and gifting.
I agree that knowledge is also something that can also be passed forward, but anyone can go to the library.

It's kinda hard to have respect for those people, who don't get it, no matter how long they have been around.

 

[mdman]

Im sorry but I dont agree,
I have started quite a few passes, which contained quite a sum of very nice cigars, and I did not do it for the cigars. I have more cigars than a human can smoke in a lifetime. I donated all the returns to the military overseas.

I dont hang out in the trader rooms though, and have no interest in trading or anything like that.

I do think a lot of people try to profit off internet cigars , if by box pass, or box split or whatever.. I figure people are smart enough to know when a guy is doing it for profit and when not.