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Another bettle outbreak in an 06 box

buzzed said:
I always freeze mine when they come in just to be safe.
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Ditto...thats for anything that goes into my humidors regardless of origin. If I get a few sticks and dont feel like freezing them, I put them in my travel humi until I get around to smoking them. BTW, I have heard about home freezers not getting cold enough to really be effective. I have a seperate freezer in the garage and it gets to -12 to -13 degrees when set at its coldest setting. Works for me.
 
Good info i have never frozen cigars. After seeing those pictures I think I will start. I have herd that they pop and crack the wrapper if you freeze them. Is this from letting them though out to fast?
Also moving my humidor to a cooler place in my basement.
 
Hmmm... Just noticed this thread and I have a box from 9/06 in my humi. Better go dig that out and take a look!


edited to add; they are ROA 9/06 and they look amazing! Too bad they're for my 1 year old when he gets older...
 
Strayvector said:
Just a word of warning to everyone. Yesterday I discovered a pretty serious beetle infestation in a NOV06 box of PSD4s in my locker at the local cigar store. I've meticulously gone through all my other boxes and thankfully it was the only box with beetles. The storage condition fluctuates between 72F-76F with humidity between 65-70%. I realize the temps are a little high, but I used to freeze all incoming cigars until about a year ago when I heard the news that HSA freezes all cigars prior to shipment. Since then, I've been a little lax about freezing my cigars. This is now the second 06 box that have had beetles hatch, so now I'm back to freezing all incoming cigars. For those of you who have relaxed your vigilance because Cuba now "freezes" their cigars, you may want to rethink your strategy. I know I will.
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I think 72-76F is too warm for cigar storage. You will always run the risk of a beetle outbreak at these temps, unless, of course, you carefully freeze your smokes beforehand. Tell your cigar store they need to turn up the AC a bit and get that constant temp just below 70F.
 
Wurm said:
Beetles are in every cigar you smoke in egg form.
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Good thing I never smoke cigars in egg form. Don't know whether that refers to some yoga-based pose, or an oddly-shaped cigar, but in either case, I don't do either.











:sign: :sign:
 
jsgorman said:
How long is a cigar vulnerable to beetles hatching - that is how long are the eggs viable?
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Thats a good question. I have heard at least one year but really am not sure. I would like to know a more definitive answer to that one too.
 
It is most likely that the problem occurred at your local lounge and not in Cuba. 72-76 is a guarantee that beetles will hatch. I doubt the store owner will set the proper temp ( below 68 degrees), it will cost him too much money. I would take your Cuban cigars out of the store and put them somewhere safe.
 
I recently had a discussion with a friend who said that if you freeze your cigars they need to be done so that the temp reaches -25 C (Many freezers dont do that). Once that temp occurs the egg actually cracks, and can no longer hatch. Then the slow process of bringing them up to temp and humi begins. Freezers can be modified to reach those temps without too much trouble. Mini Melts ice cream stores have modded freezers that go down to -50C.
The low temp thing makes sense, but moddign a freezer could get expensive, unless you find a small one to do this to.


Winny
 
Windigo said:
I recently had a discussion with a friend who said that if you freeze your cigars they need to be done so that the temp reaches -25 C (Many freezers dont do that). Once that temp occurs the egg actually cracks, and can no longer hatch. Then the slow process of bringing them up to temp and humi begins. Freezers can be modified to reach those temps without too much trouble. Mini Melts ice cream stores have modded freezers that go down to -50C.
The low temp thing makes sense, but moddign a freezer could get expensive, unless you find a small one to do this to.


Winny
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I'm more interested in putting the eggs into hibernation than I am on destroying them. Thats why I freeze cigars that have been shipped from overseas and try not to order a lot of cigars in the warm weather seasons.

At -25°c I'd be too worried about destroying my cigars.
 
Windigo said:
I recently had a discussion with a friend who said that if you freeze your cigars they need to be done so that the temp reaches -25 C (Many freezers dont do that). Once that temp occurs the egg actually cracks, and can no longer hatch.
Click to expand...

I don't understand this. Water freezes at 0 C. Water expands when it freezes. At -25 C, is it expanding more than when it originally froze? Is there something else in the beetle egg makeup that expands when it freezes and only does so at -25 C? Doesn't make sense to me...

---John Holmes...
 
Windigo said:
I recently had a discussion with a friend who said that if you freeze your cigars they need to be done so that the temp reaches -25 C (Many freezers dont do that). Once that temp occurs the egg actually cracks, and can no longer hatch.
Click to expand...

This is supposedly what Habanos SA is doing prior to shipping the cigars out of Cuba, hence me relaxing my vigil on the temps and storing them at the B&M.
 
JHolmes763 said:
Windigo said:
I recently had a discussion with a friend who said that if you freeze your cigars they need to be done so that the temp reaches -25 C (Many freezers dont do that). Once that temp occurs the egg actually cracks, and can no longer hatch.
Click to expand...

I don't understand this. Water freezes at 0 C. Water expands when it freezes. At -25 C, is it expanding more than when it originally froze? Is there something else in the beetle egg makeup that expands when it freezes and only does so at -25 C? Doesn't make sense to me...

---John Holmes...
Click to expand...

It depends on the freezing point of the bug. Some things can go dormant when it's too cold and metabolisms slow down...it still fights the cold yet does not expand(grow) rapidly.

It's not so much about 'expansion' as it is about a living entity surviving at extremes.

edit - here's a really cool article!!!
 
JHolmes763 said:
I don't understand this. Water freezes at 0 C. Water expands when it freezes. At -25 C, is it expanding more than when it originally froze? Is there something else in the beetle egg makeup that expands when it freezes and only does so at -25 C? Doesn't make sense to me...

---John Holmes...
Click to expand...
John,

It's not just the fact of expansion upon freezing. It's also a matter of how what's in the egg freezes and when. For example, Antarctic ice fish can live, move, and breed in water that is almost -2C. Here's a nifty middle school experiment that demonstrates what's going on. In effect, ice fish have evolved special systems, including unique blood, that allows them to be active in subfreezing temperatures. IIRC, there is a type of frog that can be frozen essentially in a block of ice and still be revived with no ill effects. The secret is in a class of chemicals called glycoproteins, which are basically in vivo (in living organisms) antifreeze. These chemicals have two effects that are protective of organisms (and perhaps eggs) that survive subfreezing temperatures. First, they lower the temperature at which the liquid (blood and cellular fluids) freeze so that excursions slightly below the freezing temperature of pure water will not result in the liquid freezing solid. Second, and most importantly, they prevent the formation of ice crystals within cells and tissues. These crystals destroy tissue as they grow and is what results in irreparable damage upon freezing.

Generally, the more complex the organism, the more unlikely that it will survive deep freezing. People? Presently impossible. Cells, seeds, and tissues, etc. are routinely flash frozen in liquid nitrogen for long term storage. Like in flash frozen fish, the water is frozen before it has a chance to form crystals, thus preventing the damage that occurs because of ice crystal growth.

So, beetle eggs are simple constructions which may well contain biological antifreeze. Freezing damage happens at both gross and fine levels and above a certain temperature, the combination are not necessarily fatal. Although there is a probably a dose-response effect. Check out the concept of "LD50" to learn more.

Wilkey
 
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