B&M's have to do better....

[Not A Nice Person]

Wow. I guess we're friendlier in Texas!

There are only two cigar stores left in my lil' town . . . the one I frequent is in it's third location, having outgrown the last two. They've got a small, free of charge lounge that frankly, isn't much, but is a nice enough spot to kick back with a stogie, and on Fridays they stock the beer fridge---which is ALSO free, to regulars.

When I go in, they holler "Boar!"

I've gotten good deals, free cigars, private event invites, and such from them over the years, and they and the rest of the regular crowd there are all, or at least mostly, friends.

Now, the OTHER shop still in town sells Opus but doesn't have an account---they'll go online, C-Bid or what have you, then try to tell you a Power Ranger is a $40 stick. Never been in there myself---one of the owners went to work for the B&M I do patronize, just long enough to scope their operation out and meet their vendors, then bought himself a piece of the competition. Creepy guy. Used to follow me around the humidor incessantly asking what I liked . . . now, I'm clearly no noob; we're talking graybeard and longtime customer here. Finally I told him "I like to BROWSE" and he left me alone after that.

But aside from those guys, every B&M I've been in, here, San Antonio, Austin, has been pretty cool.

~Boar

 

[Ginseng]

I'll add a story as well. There's a guy in NE Mpls who owns a couple of 'ok' tobacco stores with 'ok' humidors in the them. There close to my house, and I never used to mine buying an 858 maduro from him just for the right to sit and smoke. One day, the owner comes around. This guy owns various businesses all through NE. He starts chatting me up about whatevers on the television which I'm not watching. Something comes on that triggers politics for him. The first thing out of his mouth just blew me away.

"This guy is going to be our president. This guy... We would have hung him 50 years ago. Now, he's going to be president."

I couldn't even believe this guy was talking to me. And, just to make it very clear, he wasn't insinuating 'how amazing' it was that 'this guy was going to be president.' He was in a state of obvious disgust. He went on... and on... and on.... Then stopped. I just sat there in near shock and told him, "Well, I don't agree with anything you've just said... and yeah, he is going to be our next president."

Here's the clincher to this story, and on my grandfather's grave, all of this is true. I get a call just before the last set of debates. The 'blanks' are holding a debate watching party and want to know if I'm interested in attending. The event is being held at 'blank restauarant'. Now, this was going to be a big affair. The restaurant is owned by the same man who owns the tobacco store and made the comments about hanging the future president. I shared this with the folks on the phone. I asked to speak with their team leader or whoever the f... was running this thing. Everyone I talked to told me they were shocked to hear this, and that 'the owner' was a tremendous supporter... They didn't believe me.

A tremendous supporter... I thought I was losing my mind.

That day in his store, I saw who he really was. With the campaign, he found a way to make some money. That's also who he is. A slimy f'ng hustler.

WOW

X2 Yikes.

Wilkey

 

[BlindedByScience]

Great thread.

It would seem customer service overall is becoming a thing of the past. It's so unfortunate. When I think of great customer service, there are damn few that come to mind. There's the guy up the street I buy firearms from (always has the coffee on), two B&M's a continent away from me who I patronize regularly, and the guys that tinted the windows on our cars. Oh, the tavern up the way has great burgers and very cold beer and cute young ladies that get the food and grog on your table, pronto. I'm telling you, that's about it.

On the internet having "everything" in stock and an easy to follow return policy passes for great customer service. Even that is often times the exception...!!

Anthony's point is the clincher. When I purchase locally, there's almost nothing I can't buy cheaper on line. So, why would you ever buy locally? Convenience, for one. But when I walk into the gun store and Mike says "hey there, Tom!" and has a cup of coffee on the counter before I get there....I quit mentally comparing prices (well, almost). When I call one of the guys I buy smokes from, I tell them "I want A and B and C...." they say "it goes out tomorrow, Tom". More often than not we don't even discuss the price. The reason is that the contact, the attention, the courtesy, the SERVICE has value and is worth a lot to me. I also know through experience that any of the guys I just mentioned will treat me fairly. I don't worry about it, and that also has value.

Why great customer service is dissappearing is a damn good question. It seems that the firms that have service flourish, and the ones that don't flounder. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but eventually lousy customer service sends folks down the road, or home to the 'net. Some vendors seem to have given up, but some compete by "not competing" and focusing on the customer. I believe it really is that simple.

Regards, guys - B.B.S.

 

[bigmanfromou]

I have been finding myself frequenting B&M's less and less over the last couple of years. Mostly, it's based on the same reasons that have been mentioned in this thread such as poor customer service. But, one of the things I'm finding just as troubling is the utter lack of cigar knowlege that some the employees seem to have. I know there is a learning curve for new employees, but I continue to be amazed by people that have worked in some of these stores for years and seemingly have no clue about the product they are selling. I used to go to B&M's to try and learn something but more often than not you get steered in the wrong direction. It's just easier to learn and exchange information on CP and buy my cigars on-line.

As long as people are sharing B&M stories I might as well share mine. The last time I went into my local, they had Opus in stock. I bought the remaining 16 Petit lanceros and a couple of tins. The total for the cigars + sales tax came out just over $300. As I'm checking out the guy behind the counter says I cannot keep the Opus box since I did not buy a full box. I told him that I would have if it was full. He then tells me that I can have the box for an additional $25!!! You would think after dropping over $300 in the store he would have at had the decency to throw in the box?? What galls me is that I've been going to this store for over 8 years and have spent untold thousands of dollars there and they want to gouge me for a freakin' Opus box?? WTF??? Needless to say I won't be going back there even if Opus or other HTF's are in stock.

I would have told him to cancel my transaction. That is total crap. My wife bought the last XXX at a B&M last week, and they gave her the box. WTH is this world coming to?!

 

[Sunshine86]

As far as the guy who says he looks 16, the owner has right to ask you if you're old enough to be in there. It's not just about selling tobacco products to minors. In some places, they (the owner) can be in trouble just for letting you in. And if you're sent in by the state/county/town and he doesn't ID you, he faces losing his license.

I understand that. If he had asked if I was of age, rather than assumed (rudely, I might add) that I wasn't, I wouldn't have had a problem at all.

 

[Toasted Coastie]

That sucks man. There are a lot of really nice and friendly cigar shops around here, one right on main street where you can smoke right outside the shop and eat (Yay, New Hampshire), and another more industrial shop. I've always felt welcome by the B&M owners at both shops, but at first the "regulars" gave me some looks.

Unfortunately, sometimes I do think it takes a few visits.

Agreed. We are really lucky in this area. There are plenty of shops in the "Greater Nashua" area that are pretty friendly. Even the "industrial" one is great, I always have a good time there, even though I wish it were still a Hooters.

That one on Main st? It is co-located with a bar. You can (depending on who is working that night) go in the bar, pay for a bottle of beer, and walk back into the shop. There is also one in Manchester a buddy of mine owns, that allows people to bring their own booze. The "industrial" one is waiting for legislation to pass to be able to serve alcohol in smoking establishments. That is why they have the pub tables.

I haven't really gotten that icy stare or unwelcomed feeling yet from any of the places. I am usually the first to greet someone anyway, and ask questions. I usually tell a shop keeper that if I haven't come out of the humidor after 15 minutes with something, then I probably need help. however, I have gotten to know all the owners in the area, and they pretty much let me do my "thing".

 

[KayakinBoy]

Being as someone whose work at a B&M and has had both experiences you are talking about, and also is around the "college age", I can understand both sides of the argument.

When I worked in the Tinderbox, it was always younger people I suspected of stealing. Also a local B&M caught a group of younger people stealing from them, and now they keep everything under lock and key. Then again, there has been a story on here about a middle age man stealing from him B&M. It is just easier to suspect young people, IMO. BTW, I am 25 before one of you young punks jumps my ass.

Later a group of college age guys come in and the women asks them the "can I help you" question with the similar tone. They say no we are just looking right now but thanks. Out of ear shot of them she says "what do you mean you are looking. You don't go into the walk in humidor to look. Either you are buying or you are not". I almost fell over.

Back to the topic, I think it takes a couple of visits and personal conversations to become a regular, IMHO. :thumbs: If the people keep acting like jerks after that, screw them. They are there for you, and if they weren't they would be working somewhere else. :sign:

 

[CigarStone]

I think it applies to any business which has a "cult" type following such as cigars do. Shop owners seem to have a difficult time accepting that a customer could potentially be an expert or even knowledgeable.

Another reason why I really respect the shop owners who are members here :thumbs:

 

[B.L. Sims]

Thats unfortunate. I was lucky enough to find a B&M 3 miles from the house and their customer service has been very good. I told them I was completley new to cigars and they have bent over backwards showing me around and explaining everything I ask about with pleasure. Its a good thing too, because every other shop is pretty far from where I am...and its kinda hard to get into cigars just ordering from online. We are moving in a few months to a different part of the city; and my experience has been so good that I intend to return to shop there. Even if it means driving across town.

 

[KayakinBoy]

They talk down to you like this is your first time smoking a cigar. Funny thing is, when you listen to what they have to say, they have no idea what their talking about.

The cigar shop in Chattanooga does this all the time. They told Ms KB (who was picking up some sticks for me last Christmas) that there is only one size of Hemingway Maduros (even she knew he was wrong) and then he told her that Opus was very hard to come by and that they sell for $30 a stick, which she knew was a big fat lie. This past Christmas season, the man told me that there was only one size of Hemingway maduro, and then showed him how they had two sizes of Hemingway Maduros. He then said they hadn't been released for 10 years. I told him he had no idea what he was talking about, and that I bought them at that store last year. He then STFU and walked out the humidor. We were still nice when I walked up to the register, but I just hope he learns something.

 

[Dozerhead]

Thats unfortunate. I was lucky enough to find a B&M 3 miles from the house and their customer service has been very good. I told them I was completley new to cigars and they have bent over backwards showing me around and explaining everything I ask about with pleasure. Its a good thing too, because every other shop is pretty far from where I am...and its kinda hard to get into cigars just ordering from online. We are moving in a few months to a different part of the city; and my experience has been so good that I intend to return to shop there. Even if it means driving across town.

This why I don't understand why customer service has become so lacking at many places. If a business goes out of it's way to make you feel welcome and treat you right then not only are you more likely to go back, but you'll keep going even if it costs you a few extra cents to get there. Heck, I don't mind paying a little extra at a B&M or any other business if I know I'm getting excellent service in return. Sadly, it seems like more businesses are becoming increasingly unaware of this concept.

 

[Unclebillybonz]

I think some of you folks are lucky to have multiple local B&M's to choose from.

Here is Bismarck (granted not a very big town) there is ONE tobacco shop and a very limited one at that. The only workers are women (thats not necessarily a bad thing) but one of the employees doesn't smoke cigars, and the other 2 including the owner are big flavored cigar fans and are always pushing the Acid lines. :laugh:

Expensive prices as well. I like to support my local establishments but this place prices a cigar like a RP Edge at $8+ so it's hard to give them a lot of buisness.

There is a humidor with a small selection at a local Liquor store. They carry VSG's at at a good price but thats it. (And the thing about that is I don't care for the VSG all that much!)

I wish I had more places to shop around here, I could stomach some rude employee's as long as I was finding the sticks I wanted to try. :blush:

 

[stevehawk]

<snip>

I remember waay back in the day when I was working retail over the summer in high school, my boss told me never ask the question "can I help you" as the customer can answer back "no" Or "just looking" and thats the end of the conversation. He said to always just start a conversation and you'll be able to feel if the customer feels like chatting or need help etc.

<snip>

I can see how that would work -- sounds like great advice. Thanks for sharing.

I spend a lot of time at the cigar lounge my buddy (Idahogn here on CP) opened up last year. I try to be friendly and say hello to new faces when they come in, especially if they take the time to grab a chair with a smoke. It can be intimidating for folks when they first visit a new place, or are new to the hobby. Plus, you never know when a new customer is going to become a regular.

Very good thread, btw... :thumbs:

 

[PhatCat]

I had a great experience at my local B&M last week. I went in thinking of a particual stick to buy for a friend and the owners were really helpful and friendly. I like walking into a store (any kind of store) and just being able to get in the door, look around a couple minutes and then casually being approached by the staff asking if I need assistance.

I also liked the fact that they took the time to ask my name and also introduce themselves. I've been in there a couple times over the last few months and if I can I'd like to take the time to sit and smoke in the lounge.

Slightly higher prices are easily trumped by great customer service and attitude of the sales staff. I don't know all that much about cigars but I don't want to be talked down to like I'm a complete idiot. That's the art of a good salesman I guess. Connecting with the customer and helping them fulfill a need.

BR

 

[Martimus00]

My favorite shop is the one in downtown Cincinnati. Great selection and service. The manager gives me free sample smokes when new stuff comes out (but only every once in awhile) so i can try it. They are gentlemen. I guess thats the reason they've been in business since the late 1800's. I guess i didn't realize how good i had it with them until i heard some of the stories in this thread. Ouch

 

[Irish]

Great topic! A good B&M that has both good product and good service is tough to find IMHO. I've found that the B&M's that are stocked to the T could care less about customer service, while the newer or smaller shops that may not be on all the premium lists yet go the extra yard to get your business. It's funny too, because those shops that get all the HTF premiums but have terrible customer service are often the ones complaining that they get sooo many people coming in just for the premiums.

Happened to me a few weeks ago, I have a B&M that's a little hike that I make it to every month or so. I was passing through the area on the way to a Christmas party and stopped in. I picked up a few Padrons, some BTLs, and jokingly asked if they had any Anejos left. The shop owner looked disgusted and went on about how he wished those Fuente whores that storm his store for Anejos & Opus shopped there for their regular smokes. And while I do somewhat feel for B&Ms that have to compete with internet prices on regular smokes, you have to go that extra mile in being friendly and welcoming to get that regular business.

 

[Marco-Polo]

The problem is that most people buy on price, and it's a lose-lose proposition.

Step 1: mail order/online vendors peel off a large chunk of casual customers
Step 2: b&m retailers increase prices to make up their fixed costs, driving more people to mail order
Step 3: retailers are working on smaller margins, and they can't jack up prices without losing yet more customers, so they look at stuff they can address, like shrink - also known as shoplifting loss - and amenities, and quality staff.

In my previous existence working as a retail-industry consultant (don't ask..), I can generalize to say that there are two kinds of business: ones that live on volume and those that live on margin. Your grocery store lives on volume; they don't make a lot on any one thing you buy, but you buy a lot and they get a lot of feet in the door. Your local Lamborghini dealership lives on margin. If you were in the market for a Lamborghini, they'd spend a lot of time id-ing you, cultivating your friendship, inviting you in for special events, and then they'd be rolling in it when you finally bought one.

A cigar store's like that, just on a smaller scale. Some b&m's, and all online vendors, work on volume. They need to generate a lot of traffic to pay their costs. Most b&m's work on margin. They need to cultivate a small, static market in their catchment area and get as much margin as possible on repeat purchases.

When everyone smoked, tobacconists were in an amazing position. They got both volume AND margin. Last night, I heard the story of why economics courses are such weeders: because they can shoot students in the head, and they'll still keep on coming back. Well, tobacconists used to be able to shoot smokers in the head, and they would still keep on coming back. I'm pretty sure that this is no longer the case ... and equally sure that a lot of owners haven't figured it out yet.

 

[Macion Grey]

The problem is that most people buy on price, and it's a lose-lose proposition.

Step 1: mail order/online vendors peel off a large chunk of casual customers
Step 2: b&m retailers increase prices to make up their fixed costs, driving more people to mail order
Step 3: retailers are working on smaller margins, and they can't jack up prices without losing yet more customers, so they look at stuff they can address, like shrink - also known as shoplifting loss - and amenities, and quality staff.

In my previous existence working as a retail-industry consultant (don't ask..), I can generalize to say that there are two kinds of business: ones that live on volume and those that live on margin. Your grocery store lives on volume; they don't make a lot on any one thing you buy, but you buy a lot and they get a lot of feet in the door. Your local Lamborghini dealership lives on margin. If you were in the market for a Lamborghini, they'd spend a lot of time id-ing you, cultivating your friendship, inviting you in for special events, and then they'd be rolling in it when you finally bought one.

A cigar store's like that, just on a smaller scale. Some b&m's, and all online vendors, work on volume. They need to generate a lot of traffic to pay their costs. Most b&m's work on margin. They need to cultivate a small, static market in their catchment area and get as much margin as possible on repeat purchases.

When everyone smoked, tobacconists were in an amazing position. They got both volume AND margin. Last night, I heard the story of why economics courses are such weeders: because they can shoot students in the head, and they'll still keep on coming back. Well, tobacconists used to be able to shoot smokers in the head, and they would still keep on coming back. I'm pretty sure that this is no longer the case ... and equally sure that a lot of owners haven't figured it out yet.

That about sums it up. Excellent points.

 

[SiriusBlack]

So since my original post I decided to go back to this place and give them a second try. It really felt retarded to me that I was actually going back and I was the one trying to make the effort to forge the relationship. However some of the feedback from the brothers made since in terms of it taking time sometimes to break in a new B&M relationship. So I have returned the B&M I originally talked about twice since that original post. I have to say that the service has gotten exponentially better with each visit. Each time I spend about $20 on singles and then go to the coffee bar for a coffee and smoke one of the smokes I just purchased. The owner has been much more welcoming and attentive. Its been good. I am certainly not quite treated like one of the "regulars" yet but we are getting there. Frankly its a nice place and with all the anti's out there, nice places to smoke are becoming fewer and fewer. So I'll hang in there a bit and see how the new relationship goes.

 

[vudu9]

Over the last month (and prior) I have visited several different B&M cigar retailers. I guess for one, I like to support the small shops and I'd also like to build a relationship with a comfortable shop that I can go to and smoke at from time to time. However, again and again my experience ends up being less than what I had hoped. I would say 4 of 5 of my experiences involved a less than welcoming shop owner at best...in most cases they were out and out rude. I am not just talking about in Philly. I have tried places outside the city...even went to a shop when I visited Boston this month and it was the same thing.

In most cases I received a half a$$ hello (if any at all…yes over the weekend I had a shop keeper in very small shop not say hello until I got to the counter to pay). In several other cases I was asked "can I help you" before I was all the way in the door. Typically its in a tone you would use if you saw a door to door salesmen coming your way. I understand I don't fit the usual demographics of the cigar smokers or what some think of when they think of a smoker but in my opinion you should treat everyone that walks in your door as an opportunity to build a relationship.

Today's visit took the cake though. I go to this establishment in my area on the recommendation of a co-worker. Nice place, has a coffee bar, and a nice size walk in humidor. I immediately (two seconds after walking in) get the "can I help you" as described above. I say "no thanks...I am meeting some buddies here and just wanted to see if they were here yet". The owner or manager says “uhh okay” and walks away. He comes back a couple of times and gave me a couple of weird looks. So I realized that being on vacation a few days I probably looked a little rough around the edges. So I ask the shop keeper does he know my co-worker that recommended the place...he says "oh yeah I know him". I tell him that the co-worker was supposed to join me but could not make it at the last minute. So I was just waiting for another friend. Then he seemed to be at ease. So I guess I had to validate my presence by letting the owner know that I was friends with one of the regulars. I mean I don't think I am menacing looking. I wear glasses for Christ sake but fine....whatever he stopped watching me.

Now get this...my other buddy arrives. We head to the walk in and pick out some smokes. The manager disappears by this point to continue watching the game in another (private room). Yeah now that I actually need some help he is no where to be found. So an older woman helps us. We then head to the coffee bar and order a couple drinks and light up our smokes. Later a group of college age guys come in and the women asks them the "can I help you" question with the similar tone. They say no we are just looking right now but thanks. Out of ear shot of them she says "what do you mean you are looking. You don't go into the walk in humidor to look. Either you are buying or you are not". I almost fell over. These guys could represent a future relationship not to mention all the recommendations they could make to their friends and she just completely crapped on them. Maybe they were newbies too nervous to ask the questions they had about all the cigars. I just felt like it was a huge missed opportunity.

I guess I say all of this to say...no one...at least not me...wants to be required to visit a shop 10 times or some other magic number before being treated as a welcomed customer. I know there is a certain level of familiarity that comes with being a "regular" but to a certain extent shouldn't everyone be treated that way? In addition I shouldn't be the one being overly pleasant trying to win THEM over or prove to them that I am a serious cigar guy.

On-line retailers are not killing business for B&M's just because of cheaper prices. I would argue lackluster service is a big part of it too. Here's my argument...if the B&M adds no value to my cigar smoking and buying experience then what reason is there for me to support them? If I can get comparable prices if not cheaper on line what reason is there for me to keep trying to support B&M retailers who seem to be only interested in catering to their regulars and rushing the rest of us out of the door as soon as possible. Certainly there are many many exceptions to what I have experienced but for me there have just been way too many that fall into this category. Just my two cents.

I really hate that "old guard" Fuc#*g BuLL$h*t attitude. That's one of the reasons I went out on my own. In a lot of these older shops, the staff is so jaded and poisoned that it rubs of on the everyone else they come in contact with. You really don't find this with any of the younger owners so-to-speak. West Coast Cigars in CA. is a great example.