Fruits of Castro's Soil Pass No.1

[ironpeddler]

Anyone else have any input on this?
 
Help would be appreciated.
 
Paul 

 
 
T:  Quai d'Orsay Panatela POS JUN 06
P:  Punch Petit Coronas del Punch OPM MAR 09
 

 
 
 
I believe this is the only one left in question and the one I need some help on. All others look great unless I missed something.
 
Paul

 
First thing is, one is still in production and one isn't...that's an issue here.
 
Even if you made the age a push, wasn't the Q d'O Panetela about an $9-$9.50 cigar when in production?...if memory serves me correctly. BTW: It sucked that they were involved in the infamous '2010 Panatela Purge' by Habanos S.A. as they pushed bigger ring sizes. They suck!
 
At best the Punch is a $6.50 to $7.00 stick...add in that it's still a current run cigar (and one of 3 versions), this should shoot this trade down on two fronts. If they were both in or out of production, this still shouldn't fly because of price....the difference in age shouldn't factor in. 
 
The thing we have to remember, EVERYONE value$ age when talking CC...it's the mantra we've all been led to believe. In my opinion, 2-3 years difference is not a big deal, so let's no OVER VALUE the age. 'Out of production' adds a little more value at this time, and in this case should be one of the deal breakers. A few more years from now, that ninfa will garner more value.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Paul, while I was digging through the cooler to find everything I came across the HU PC.  The foot and wrapper are a little chewed up.  While it's still smokeable, I am not comfortable trading it in a pass.  If possible, I would like substitute a Montecristo 5 for the HU PC?  It also help gets the price a little closer.  The T/P would look like this:
 
T:  Juan Lopez Petit Corona ABR JUL 11 - $5.71 average
P:  Montecristo #5 - $6.04 average
 
Thoughts?

 

[Gavin]

Looks good to me.

 

[ironpeddler]

Paul, while I was digging through the cooler to find everything I came across the HU PC.  The foot and wrapper are a little chewed up.  While it's still smokeable, I am not comfortable trading it in a pass.  If possible, I would like substitute a Montecristo 5 for the HU PC?  It also help gets the price a little closer.  The T/P would look like this:
 
T:  Juan Lopez Petit Corona ABR JUL 11 - $5.71 average
P:  Montecristo #5 - $6.04 average
 
Thoughts?

 
Is that using Paul's new Vendor list?

 

[Gern Blansten]

Gary, the Punch PCDP was DC'd in 2012.  I am using Trevor's site as the source for this info.  Here is a link to the page.
 
The Coronations is the exact same size but according to one of the chosen vendors, the blend is not even close. 

 

[Tall Paul]

 

Anyone else have any input on this?
 
Help would be appreciated.
 
Paul 



 
 
T:  Quai d'Orsay Panatela POS JUN 06
P:  Punch Petit Coronas del Punch OPM MAR 09
 

 
 
 
I believe this is the only one left in question and the one I need some help on. All others look great unless I missed something.
 
Paul

 
First thing is, one is still in production and one isn't...that's an issue here.
 
Even if you made the age a push, wasn't the Q d'O Panetela about an $9-$9.50 cigar when in production?...if memory serves me correctly. BTW: It sucked that they were involved in the infamous '2010 Panatela Purge' by Habanos S.A. as they pushed bigger ring sizes. They suck!
 
At best the Punch is a $6.50 to $7.00 stick...add in that it's still a current run cigar (and one of 3 versions), this should shoot this trade down on two fronts. If they were both in or out of production, this still shouldn't fly because of price....the difference in age shouldn't factor in. 
 
The thing we have to remember, EVERYONE value$ age when talking CC...it's the mantra we've all been led to believe. In my opinion, 2-3 years difference is not a big deal, so let's no OVER VALUE the age. 'Out of production' adds a little more value at this time, and in this case should be one of the deal breakers. A few more years from now, that ninfa will garner more value.
 


Gary i see the Punch PC del Punch was discontinued in 2012 based on cubancigarwebsite.com

 

[Light this!]

Gary are we talking about the same Punch? These were discontinued in 2012. However if your thinking is that 3 years in age doesn't make a difference then I'm ok with the trade. I priced these out at about the same price.

 

[ironpeddler]

 

 


Anyone else have any input on this?
 
Help would be appreciated.
 
Paul 



 
 
T:  Quai d'Orsay Panatela POS JUN 06
P:  Punch Petit Coronas del Punch OPM MAR 09
 

 
 
 
I believe this is the only one left in question and the one I need some help on. All others look great unless I missed something.
 
Paul

 
First thing is, one is still in production and one isn't...that's an issue here.
 
Even if you made the age a push, wasn't the Q d'O Panetela about an $9-$9.50 cigar when in production?...if memory serves me correctly. BTW: It sucked that they were involved in the infamous '2010 Panatela Purge' by Habanos S.A. as they pushed bigger ring sizes. They suck!
 
At best the Punch is a $6.50 to $7.00 stick...add in that it's still a current run cigar (and one of 3 versions), this should shoot this trade down on two fronts. If they were both in or out of production, this still shouldn't fly because of price....the difference in age shouldn't factor in. 
 
The thing we have to remember, EVERYONE value$ age when talking CC...it's the mantra we've all been led to believe. In my opinion, 2-3 years difference is not a big deal, so let's no OVER VALUE the age. 'Out of production' adds a little more value at this time, and in this case should be one of the deal breakers. A few more years from now, that ninfa will garner more value.
 


Gary i see the Punch PC del Punch was discontinued in 2012 based on cubancigarwebsite.com
 


 
I still see them available on multiple websites though and at cheap money...but not the Q d'O. Like I said, even with both out of production, this is still off price-wise.
 
 
 
On another note that has no effect on pricing and just for conversation, the Punch is still made in 2 other versions with pretty much the same blend....the ninfa is done forever, blend and all. 

 

[Light this!]

Gary I also think that the reason people always factor age on CC's is because probably until maybe 2010 and 11 they needed time. I don't think that this holds true with recent production as they have been pretty spot on.The belief is that the Cubans are starting to age their product now.

 

[ironpeddler]

Gary, the Punch PCDP was DC'd in 2012.  I am using Trevor's site as the source for this info.  Here is a link to the page.
 
The Coronations is the exact same size but according to one of the chosen vendors, the blend is not even close. 

 
I smoked them both and I couldn't tell them apart.    But what the f does my palette know  :laugh: The older I get, the less I trust it!

 

[Gern Blansten]

 

Paul, while I was digging through the cooler to find everything I came across the HU PC.  The foot and wrapper are a little chewed up.  While it's still smokeable, I am not comfortable trading it in a pass.  If possible, I would like substitute a Montecristo 5 for the HU PC?  It also help gets the price a little closer.  The T/P would look like this:
 
T:  Juan Lopez Petit Corona ABR JUL 11 - $5.71 average
P:  Montecristo #5 - $6.04 average
 
Thoughts?

 
Is that using Paul's new Vendor list?
 

 2/3 were from Paul's list.
 
If I use all five four of the vendors on Pauls list and average their prices, the trade looks like this:
 
T:  Juan Lopez Petit Corona ABR JUL 11 - $5.07 average
P:  Montecristo #5 - $5.48 average
 
I dropped the last one on the list because they did not offer the JL-PC and their price on the #5 would have skewed the average over $6.
 
*Edit:  Since I dropped the last vendor on the list because of their stock, I did not technically "use all five."

 

[Gern Blansten]

Here is my revised submission for your consideration:
 
T:  Bolivar Gold Medal LRE OCT 09
P:  H. Upmann Royale Robusto LCDH SUB ABR 12
 
T:  Por Larranaga Encantos RE Asia Pacifico 2010 URG DIC 10
P:  Ramon Allones Superiores LCDH OGA MAY 11
 
T:  Partagas Mille Fleurs SAB JUN 12
P:  ERDM Demi Tasse
 
T:  Partagas Shorts LBO NOV 12
P:  RASCC OGA MAR 12
 
T:  Bolivar Corona Junior OGA MAY 12
P:  Montecristo No. 4
 
T:  SLR Pacifico RE 2009 - MOS JUL 09
P:  Ramon Allones Celestiales Finos RE Asia Pacifico 2009 OMA AGO 09
 
T:  Juan Lopez Petit Corona ABR JUL 11
P:  Montecristo No. 5
 
T:  HdM Epicure Epesciale MLO OIC 11
P:  Montecristo No. 2

 

[Tall Paul]

Here is my revised submission for your consideration:
 
T:  Bolivar Gold Medal LRE OCT 09
P:  H. Upmann Royale Robusto LCDH SUB ABR 12
 
T:  Por Larranaga Encantos RE Asia Pacifico 2010 URG DIC 10
P:  Ramon Allones Superiores LCDH OGA MAY 11
 
T:  Partagas Mille Fleurs SAB JUN 12
P:  ERDM Demi Tasse
 
T:  Partagas Shorts LBO NOV 12
P:  RASCC OGA MAR 12
 
T:  Bolivar Corona Junior OGA MAY 12
P:  Montecristo No. 4
 
T:  SLR Pacifico RE 2009 - MOS JUL 09
P:  Ramon Allones Celestiales Finos RE Asia Pacifico 2009 OMA AGO 09
 
T:  Juan Lopez Petit Corona ABR JUL 11
P:  Montecristo No. 5
 
T:  HdM Epicure Epesciale MLO OIC 11
P:  Montecristo No. 2

 
Looks good to me.
 
Paul

 

[Jonesy]

 
T:  HdM Epicure Epesciale MLO OIC 11
P:  Montecristo No. 2
 
 

To me, this is the only one that doesn't work. The HdM is a $8.4 cigar while the #2 is consistently $10. You're looking at a %16 markup. You can't give the Epi any value as far as age because it hasn't met that yet, especially with the Monte being a '11 or '12. Rule of thumb #1 with age is that you don't factor age into a cigar until it's at LEAST 5-7 years old. Plus, you don't want to go to every vendor and find their prices and divide them to get a price. The absolute most you do is take three like prices and divide them out. I checked two vendors I use and both gave me the same $ amount for both cigars. So I would nix this one trade due to the % of the over put.
 
 
You can't just pull vendors out of the air to price, you need to find 2 that you are comfortable with and their prices don't flucuate like some of these others do.
 
Just my $00.02

 

[Gern Blansten]

I used the same three vendors on all but three of the trades I proposed just because the others did not have that particular cigar's pricing available.  I will PM you the vendors.
 
On the HdM, the pricing I used was:  $10.04, 9.04 and 9.92  Average:  $9.67
The #2:  $11.30, 10,24 and 10.32  Average:  $10.62
 
All three numbers come from the same three vendors and the first two numbers are vendors on Paul's list.
 
*Edit:  spelling

 

[Light this!]

Jonesy, ok then a couple more points for pure discussion and learning purposes. We now have five sources that we are using for pricing that are still all over the board on pricing and as Gary mentioned earlier some are duty free, some are not etc. - do we pick the cheapest vendors for pricing? This makes it tough due to the fact that not all vendors have the same stock. Some do and one particular vendor is always out of stock and the cheapest of them all. (Which raises the question to me if they even have the stock that they claim they do) I don't feel as that is a fair way to price this out. Do we use an out of stock vendor into the pricing?
 
You say age doesn't factor into the equation until the cigar has 5-7 years of age in which I feel is a bit generous. In my opinion a 3 year old cigar depending on the cigar is aged but it's the way that it's been done so I would go by what you gentlemen are saying. So my question is what what's wrong with the Jon's trade for the QdO? I initially disagreed with it because of the 3 year age difference but ok with it after the explanation about the aging factor. The pricing that I got were close, both discontinued and a 3 year age difference. I know Gary mentioned that there are still some similar cigars but this particular Punch is discontinued just like the Qdo.
 
Your thoughts brother.
 
ETA: spelling

 

[Jonesy]

I never really looked at that trade, but if you go into any older pass, 5-7 year is standard on giving value to an aged cigar. If you guys are using sources for your pricing, everyone should be using the same ones. I f Paul wants you to use 5, then you automatically throw out the highest and lowest price and go from there. 3 years has no affect whatsoever on the pricing of a cigar, it's too young still. Yes, you can still use an out of stock price. I use FOH and PX because they are the most consistent with they're pricing. The QDO has 6 years of age which puts it in the category of getting a slight bump in price. Since both are discontinued, the Punch is a wash because it doesn't meet age yet unless it's priced higher than the Q'dO

If those are the vendors Paul wants you to use Jon, then that's what you go by. I was just giving my opinion

BTW, CL's and FOH are two of the worst vendors to get prices from

 

[Light this!]

Ok that makes some sense to me. Now what percentage do we use on upping the price on the value of the cigar when it has reached that 5-7 year age factor?

 

[Tall Paul]

I used the same three vendors on all but three of the trades I proposed just because the others did not have that particular cigar's pricing available.  I will PM you the vendors.
 
On the HdM, the pricing I used was:  $10.04, 9.04 and 9.92  Average:  $9.67
The #2:  $11.30, 10,24 and 10.32  Average:  $10.62
 
All three numbers come from the same three vendors and the first two numbers are vendors on Paul's list.
 
*Edit:  spelling

Jon you and I came up pretty close in value like you listed and by that I see nothing wrong with this trade.

Paul

 

[Light this!]

Again just for clarification purposes, the QdO is 8 years old and the Punch is 5 years old. With everything else being even you would give the QdO a little more value due to age. By doing this the value now would increase on the QdO making the punch an under put dollar wise. The price of the Punch was close but slightly cheaper to begin with.

If this is correct then I get it. Thanks.