How would you respond?

[RoguePuffer]

Pete,

Thanks for chiming in here. Answering the questions this community has can do alot of good for all of us.
I hate to say these things because the Noellas was the cigar that turned me onto cigars in the first place and I've always been a big fan of the brown labels.

The amount of stems which could be classified as twigs I've seen in La Riquezas, and Pepins MF 1922 lately is alarming. I pulled one out of a La Riqueza #1 a month or so ago that if I didn't know better I would've considered a branch. Almost every one of your new El Triunfadors I've smoked has been airy and underfilled to the point of making them flavorless. I've smoked each size numerous times and they all can be sucked through like a straw. These are obvious QC problems in the factory. I'm not sure who's to blame but there is a QC problem from what I've witnessed. Now maybe it's just me and I'm just unlucky to be picking up the few sticks that are not up to snuff. I don't know but this is what I've witnessed.

Jay

Thanks Jay. I can't speak for the 1922 but I will definately touch on the Triunfador. The Triunfador is a very mild blend with using only Volado and Seco leaves which are very thin. Sometimes there are degrees of thickness to these leaves that can change the amount of fill. This is almost impossible to catch, when you have a roller used to bunching a certain amount of leaves. All of the cigars are gathered and weighed in wheels of 50 where we have a range of weight that we allow but before that we do multiple bunch checks to test for any draw issues. A loose draw when the cigar is fresh is hard to detect and it is possible for a few to slip through. After the rolling room and during pressing, the cigars continue to go through constant QC check points. I've had a few comments on the draw from the first batch and discussed this with the factory over two months ago. So hopefully any issue can be avoided in the future.

The stems or veins are normal part of a cigar leaf and can be found in every cigar. Some can be more prominent than others.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Pete,

Glad to see that you have jumped in here and taken the bull by the horns. I belive that direct involvement with your customers is the only way to keep your brand afloat. I belive however in my mind that you might want to take a look at how you respond to customers when emailed with a concern. In my many years dealing with public relations, and customer service, I have found that when a customer reaches out to you with a problem, they are looking for something personal in return. Your response emails sounded very standoffish and athouratative when I belive you would have found more success with a personal aproach like the following...


Mr. X

I see that you are having an issue with some of our fine cigars. What you have shown me in the photos does not apear to be within the standards of our companys QC. We here at Tatuaje consider each and every one of our cigars to be the finest in its class in the marketplace. I would like to personaly extend to your my appolagies. We do have a method for addressing thease rare situations when QC comes into question.

I would like to ask, if it is not too much trouble, that you please return the product you purchased to the retailer that you bought it from. I will be contacting the retailer with strict instructions to return your cigars, along with another sample bundle from his shelves to our factory where our skilled QC team can inspect and disect the both bundles to see if this was a fluke or a real issue that needs to be addressed.

I will also leave instructions with the retailer to not only provide you with a replacement and a refund, but also to provide you a few other cigars in our lines that I personaly belive you will thoroughly enjoy. I would like to thank you for your time and concerns, and sincerly hope that this isolated incident dosent tarnish your view of our fine cigar company.

I would also like to ask that you provide me your address so that I can send you out a swag bag just to say thank you for alearting us to this issue.





Now I belive that a response like that would have me singing praises about your cigar company, but that is just me. A cigar forum newbie, what do I know?

 

[bfisher88]

Pete I think the main thing here is there has been a lack of quality in the latest productions. When you first started with all the basics like the reds, browns, blacks, etc etc the quality IMO was fantastic. But to see a La Riqueza filled with garbage that you would expect from a P series, that is a little disappointing. Since then we have seen wet paint boxes, lower quality construction, and a few other issues come up. I am a huge Tat fan and still smoke a lot of them, but honestly I havn't bought a single box of the newest stuff because the older production is so much better to me. I am glad though to see you come over here and answer questions about your product, that says a lot. Hopefully you will address some of these issues like the quality and such and you will better your company from it.

 

[ironpeddler]

Thanks Jay. I can't speak for the 1922 but I will definately touch on the Triunfador. The Triunfador is a very mild blend with using only Volado and Seco leaves which are very thin. Sometimes there are degrees of thickness to these leaves that can change the amount of fill. This is almost impossible to catch, when you have a roller used to bunching a certain amount of leaves. All of the cigars are gathered and weighed in wheels of 50 where we have a range of weight that we allow but before that we do multiple bunch checks to test for any draw issues. A loose draw when the cigar is fresh is hard to detect and it is possible for a few to slip through. After the rolling room and during pressing, the cigars continue to go through constant QC check points. I've had a few comments on the draw from the first batch and discussed this with the factory over two months ago. So hopefully any issue can be avoided in the future.

The stems or veins are normal part of a cigar leaf and can be found in every cigar. Some can be more prominent than others.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Pete,

Let me also thank you for coming here and addressing these concerns first hand, that says a lot toward your character in systematically answering each members/customers questions. Standing up for what you know as right and truthful goes a long way in building a successful business.

Now I think I understand when you say (as I put in bold print above) "when you have a roller used to bunching a certain amount of leaves". When a roller is rolling from one blend/leaf to another, they probably just take that same amount of leaves (regardless of their thickness and density) and proceed as they always have when rolling other cigars of different blends. Good point and people are people and this IS a handmade product. BUT...at the price you charge for your cigars Pete, I would hope this would NEVER be an issue because this should have been addressed way in advance of this roller's cigars ever seeing the inside of a box!...in their practice stage before actually rolling production cigars. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like a very elementary prerequisite for rolling cigars...can the roller roll a good cigar representative to this brand/price point.

The second part I put in bold print I don't understand and I ask you to please educate me a little further. When you said, "A loose draw when the cigar is fresh is hard to detect"...I interpreted that to mean that because the leaves are fresh and moist, the cigar would be denser until it aged/dried out a bit to then allow it's proper draw ...is that correct? If my assumption is correct, then how could you have said to Greg that the dusty, fine particles of the leaves occurred at the bunching stage...if the leaves were so moist in the first place and remain that way throughout the entire rolling process? Don't you need some dry & brittle tobacco to produce that crumbly effect? I have witnessed the entire rolling process and have seen cigar tobacco with dried edges being used in the blending/bunching process, but what Greg showed us seems to be a bit more than dry edges. Please explain.

Pete, I think what we are doing is connecting the dots on a few issues about your products lately...issues that effect us when we spend hard earned money on what you bill as a premium product. When you advertise as you do, and limit production on certain sticks as you do, you set the bar very high. These products you so proudly market should be impeccable...not merely acceptable. This is a table YOU have set...not us...YOU. So, to ask for a box that doesn't smell like shellac or have cigars that don't taste bitter & young, or be under filled with substandard tobacco to the point of being unsmokeable...at $8 to $15 a stick...is not much to ask of you. Maybe someone needs to take a step back and re-evaluate the whole process from front to back. EVERY business needs to do that periodically, maybe this is your time.

I have been in business for quite a few years and you my friend are at a very sensitive time in this business endeavor. Frankly speaking, you have done a wonderful and masterful job to get this far, a job few could have ever done so quickly. Please, choose your words, actions, and business partners very carefully. NEVER lose your view and perspective of your customers...because if you do, and they work their way down a few notches on your list of priorities, you have then taken the first steps towards a quick demise. You're a very smart man Pete and I'm sure you already know all of this, but it's good to hear a third party perspective every now and then...I know I do. EVERYONE loves a success story, so continue to be one and always do the right thing.

I look forward to your continued participation here at CP.

 

[wkoti]

I agree with the previous statements, I've smoked numerous Tatuaje's most being high end premium lines and they were all excellent, but I can't honestly say I've ever had one that I believe to be fully filled. Every Tatuaje I've ever smoked have a terrible loose draw and most of them are very soft, which to me shows they are under filled. But, because of the price tag I've never had the huevos to waste one of these cigars to confirm my suspicions. Tatuaje is one of my favorite brands, because of the diversity and flavor profiles, but I have to say in my opinion the Quality Control is far from Superb. I'm still trying to remove the lacquer smell from my Drac :laugh:

WKOTI

 

[souldog]

Pete, I think what we are doing is connecting the dots on a few issues about your products lately...issues that effect us when we spend hard earned money on what you bill as a premium product. When you advertise as you do, and limit production on certain sticks as you do, you set the bar very high. These products you so proudly market should be impeccable...not merely acceptable. This is a table YOU have set...not us...YOU. So, to ask for a box that doesn't smell like shellac or have cigars that don't taste bitter & young, or be under filled with substandard tobacco to the point of being unsmokeable...at $8 to $15 a stick...is not much to ask of you. Maybe someone needs to take a step back and re-evaluate the whole process from front to back. EVERY business needs to do that periodically, maybe this is your time.

I could not have said it any better. Well done Gary!

 

[insight]

I am glad to see you chiming in Pete. As I have said before I understand why you dropped off participating but a little bit can go a long way to showing you still give a damn.

 

[Bsneed51]

FFS guys, I'm sure both tmoney and Pembroke's freedom fighter alarms are sounding in unison right now. Once they get mounted up and head in here, you’re all in big trouble.

I guess I consider myself lucky because I’ve not had many quality issues with Pete or Pepin’s stuff, other than the occasional cracked wrapper, but I know that is a potential issue when I buy them because of the thin wrapper leaf they use on a lot of their stuff. I’ve met Pete, and he’s a good dude with a lot of passion for this industry. I doubt he’s knowingly putting out bad product, so explaining to him your issues is fine. Throwing gas on him and trying to set him on fire may not solve much.

Anyway, I have no dog in this fight. I hope it gets worked out for all.

 

[CRQuarto]

I agree with the previous statements, I've smoked numerous Tatuaje's most being high end premium lines and they were all excellent, but I can't honestly say I've ever had one that I believe to be fully filled. Every Tatuaje I've ever smoked have a terrible loose draw and most of them are very soft, which to me shows they are under filled. But, because of the price tag I've never had the huevos to waste one of these cigars to confirm my suspicions. Tatuaje is one of my favorite brands, because of the diversity and flavor profiles, but I have to say in my opinion the Quality Control is far from Superb. I'm still trying to remove the lacquer smell from my Drac :laugh:

WKOTI

Ever smoke a Padron 1926? Every single one I've had (which is a lot), have had a very loose draw.

 

[LilBastage]

Who has the picture of the Drac that was smoked at the Outlaw on Friday afternoon? That thing was hollow...

Breedy? Moe?

La Riqueza's are one of the cigars I still smoke on a regular basis (as regularly as I smoke cigars these days) and I've never had a problem with these cigars from the older boxes I'm smoking from.

 

[pembroke3355]

FFS guys, I'm sure both tmoney and Pembroke's freedom fighter alarms are sounding in unison right now. Once they get mounted up and head in here, you’re all in big trouble.

I guess I consider myself lucky because I’ve not had many quality issues with Pete or Pepin’s stuff, other than the occasional cracked wrapper, but I know that is a potential issue when I buy them because of the thin wrapper leaf they use on a lot of their stuff. I’ve met Pete, and he’s a good dude with a lot of passion for this industry. I doubt he’s knowingly putting out bad product, so explaining to him your issues is fine. Throwing gas on him and trying to set him on fire may not solve much.

Anyway, I have no dog in this fight. I hope it gets worked out for all.
[

FFS guys, I'm sure both tmoney and Pembroke's freedom fighter alarms are sounding in unison right now. Once they get mounted up and head in here, you’re all in big trouble.

I guess I consider myself lucky because I’ve not had many quality issues with Pete or Pepin’s stuff, other than the occasional cracked wrapper, but I know that is a potential issue when I buy them because of the thin wrapper leaf they use on a lot of their stuff. I’ve met Pete, and he’s a good dude with a lot of passion for this industry. I doubt he’s knowingly putting out bad product, so explaining to him your issues is fine. Throwing gas on him and trying to set him on fire may not solve much.

Anyway, I have no dog in this fight. I hope it gets worked out for all.

Who is starting drama now Brent you need to look at yourself. I still have some Tats but have found of late the Viaje to be a better all around smoke. I have some of the new Tat La Riqueza #5. I have smoked one so far and had no issues with it.

 

[tsmckenney]

Ever smoke a Padron 1926? Every single one I've had (which is a lot), have had a very loose draw.

I'm thinking a 'loose draw' is pretty subjective. I smoked three varieties of the 1926 on Saturday. I thought the draw was perfect. As I have found with every single Padron I've ever smoked. Besides that, I will take a loose draw over a tight draw any day of the week.

 

[Bsneed51]

Ever smoke a Padron 1926? Every single one I've had (which is a lot), have had a very loose draw.

I'm thinking a 'loose draw' is pretty subjective. I smoked three varieties of the 1926 on Saturday. I thought the draw was perfect. As I have found with every single Padron I've ever smoked. Besides that, I will take a loose draw over a tight draw any day of the week.

Agreed Mick. A lot of the Padron 2000's I smoke might be considered loose by some, but to me the draw is great on those. I've never had a Padron anni I considered loose.

 

[Yeahthatsme]

I've had several padrons that have had, to me, too light of a draw. The same goes for several drew estates cigars. Haven't had the issue so much with tatuaje but it doesn't surprise me. Hopefully the retailer replaces the product so we can have a happy ending here.

 

[Kingantz]

This is not about a loose draw, and not even about the scrap tobacco that was found inside the cigars. It’s about the response I received back from Pete on said issues.

I admit the number one purpose for my sending the original email I did was in hopes that I would not get stuck with these cigars and was actually hoping for guaranteed replacements (actually hinted for No.5’s). The second reason, and why I sent the information to Tatuaje/Pete, was to let him/them know what I found. I could very easily have returned the cigars to the vendor for a refund, however to find what I did not just in the first random cigar pulled from the bundle, but the second cigar on the opposite side really raised a flag for me and thought it would for Pete. Maybe the pictures didn’t do it justice, but there was a huge amount of scrap tobacco that came out of those cigars. I don’t mean just a few pieces, but really half the cigar I’d say. When I initially received the response, I wasn’t sure if I should laugh at it or be pissed, and was probably a little (or lot) of both. So much so I had to go out and drink a beer and smoke an aged Anejo 50 for about an hour. As usual, when I run into these type problems, I like to share them with the board and get some feedback because I’ll be the first to admit I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed, however I don’t believe myself to be the stoopidist either (be quiet Jonathan).

To share my response back to Pete:

Man, I got to tell you I've had to re-read your response a number of times as my eyes really just could not believe what they were reading. It happened when the cigars were compressed in the mold? I could've sworn that when the tobacco is rolled it is semi-damp and then goes to the mold semi-damp as well. But, let's just say it's not, that it's actually dry and brittle when being compressed. How would you explain the bits and pieces of tobacco that fell out from between the two binder leaves? Those bits and pieces and powdery tobacco parts weren't even part of the binder, but again in between those leaves. I believe 100% those bits and pieces were there when being rolled, as was all of the other that fell out when I unraveled it. As far as the stems, they are usually torn out, or either cut out prior to rolling the cigars, at least the larger stems. And, even if they aren't for whatever reason, the two stems that were in my picture had no leaf attached whatsoever, and again I believe 100% they were placed in the cigar while rolling.

As mentioned, I found it hard to believe your response. To be honest, I was expecting it to be blamed on a half ass roller and that you had no idea how that got into your cigars, but it would be taken care of immediately. That I could have lived with. I am also not happy at all with being told to go back to NHC for a refund on "the remaining cigars". Like the two I took out were smokeable? I came to you with what I believe to be a serious issue with some of your cigars and to be completely blown off with such a response is in my opinion completely wrong. I will be sending these cigars back to NHC tomorrow and cancelling two other orders I have in elsewhere.

It may have been a bit harsh, however admittedly I was not a happy camper. I was actually ready to have the biggest Tatuaje sale CP has ever seen (back off Nickc…back off man :laugh: ). Pete did reply back a second time trying to make it right, and admittedly I was somewhat surprised to see him posting here, so there’s some effort being made. Maybe I will hold off on the Tatuaje bonfire I planned to have this weekend. :whistling:

What really sucks is I had three old Petit Robustos left and smoked them all this past week knowing I had more coming. Damnit.

 

[Mr Peat]

As you have seen some of the pictures which shows that my beloved Fuente products have suffered some serious QC issues in the last 2 years Kingantz, I will let you know how I would respond once/if they write back to my email I sent to the Customer Relations Office for the Fuente cigars. As for Tatuaje and Pepin stuff I stopped buying years ago. I got sick of the wrapper splitting from cap to foot. I had 3 back to back that did that and I said enough of this. I always enjoyed the flavors but the wrapper splitting was becoming a hassle. Thus I started buying cigars from other companies. Hopefully one day this won't be an issue with the Tatuaje so that I can enjoy them again.

 

[jayro75]

This is not about a loose draw, and not even about the scrap tobacco that was found inside the cigars. It’s about the response I received back from Pete on said issues.

I admit the number one purpose for my sending the original email I did was in hopes that I would not get stuck with these cigars and was actually hoping for guaranteed replacements (actually hinted for No.5’s). The second reason, and why I sent the information to Tatuaje/Pete, was to let him/them know what I found. I could very easily have returned the cigars to the vendor for a refund, however to find what I did not just in the first random cigar pulled from the bundle, but the second cigar on the opposite side really raised a flag for me and thought it would for Pete. Maybe the pictures didn’t do it justice, but there was a huge amount of scrap tobacco that came out of those cigars. I don’t mean just a few pieces, but really half the cigar I’d say. When I initially received the response, I wasn’t sure if I should laugh at it or be pissed, and was probably a little (or lot) of both. So much so I had to go out and drink a beer and smoke an aged Anejo 50 for about an hour. As usual, when I run into these type problems, I like to share them with the board and get some feedback because I’ll be the first to admit I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed, however I don’t believe myself to be the stoopidist either (be quiet Jonathan).

To share my response back to Pete:

Man, I got to tell you I've had to re-read your response a number of times as my eyes really just could not believe what they were reading. It happened when the cigars were compressed in the mold? I could've sworn that when the tobacco is rolled it is semi-damp and then goes to the mold semi-damp as well. But, let's just say it's not, that it's actually dry and brittle when being compressed. How would you explain the bits and pieces of tobacco that fell out from between the two binder leaves? Those bits and pieces and powdery tobacco parts weren't even part of the binder, but again in between those leaves. I believe 100% those bits and pieces were there when being rolled, as was all of the other that fell out when I unraveled it. As far as the stems, they are usually torn out, or either cut out prior to rolling the cigars, at least the larger stems. And, even if they aren't for whatever reason, the two stems that were in my picture had no leaf attached whatsoever, and again I believe 100% they were placed in the cigar while rolling.

As mentioned, I found it hard to believe your response. To be honest, I was expecting it to be blamed on a half ass roller and that you had no idea how that got into your cigars, but it would be taken care of immediately. That I could have lived with. I am also not happy at all with being told to go back to NHC for a refund on "the remaining cigars". Like the two I took out were smokeable? I came to you with what I believe to be a serious issue with some of your cigars and to be completely blown off with such a response is in my opinion completely wrong. I will be sending these cigars back to NHC tomorrow and cancelling two other orders I have in elsewhere.

It may have been a bit harsh, however admittedly I was not a happy camper. I was actually ready to have the biggest Tatuaje sale CP has ever seen (back off Nickc…back off man :laugh: ). Pete did reply back a second time trying to make it right, and admittedly I was somewhat surprised to see him posting here, so there’s some effort being made. Maybe I will hold off on the Tatuaje bonfire I planned to have this weekend. :whistling:

What really sucks is I had three old Petit Robustos left and smoked them all this past week knowing I had more coming. Damnit.

Dibs on the '07 Noellas. :sign: :laugh:

 

[Bsneed51]

I’ll take the Noella Reservas, and the La Riqueza cabinets. :laugh:

 

[tsmckenney]

I've had several padrons that have had, to me, too light of a draw. The same goes for several drew estates cigars. Haven't had the issue so much with tatuaje but it doesn't surprise me. Hopefully the retailer replaces the product so we can have a happy ending here.

And to think Jorge 'allowed' you to pose with 'his' event girls. Tsk tsk Joe. Tsk tsk.

 

[MadMonk]

Ever smoke a Padron 1926? Every single one I've had (which is a lot), have had a very loose draw.

I'm thinking a 'loose draw' is pretty subjective. I smoked three varieties of the 1926 on Saturday. I thought the draw was perfect. As I have found with every single Padron I've ever smoked. Besides that, I will take a loose draw over a tight draw any day of the week.

If you "Sip" your cigars, Padron's are perfect. They taste better, to me, smoked in that fashion. The old man smokes that way, two light sips, and then one stronger sip. Loose is subjective. Mine have always burned razor sharp, delivered plenty of smoke, and are enviably consistent.

I suppose I should make it clear that my dissatisfaction, in ultimate terms, are with the factory. Who the hell knows what Pete allows, or has intimate knowledge of.
I would be hard convinced that he would allow sandwich construction on one of his more popular lines. There are easier ways to commit "suicide".

In the big picture, to me, Pepin's cigars are just not what they used to be. Too many of his older blends are just not as rich and delicious. I had boxes to compare as the Holt's induced transitions happened. I wasted a lot of money on Pepin smokes during his Holt's/Ashton ramp up. A hell of a lot of off tastes, and straw like construction.

 

[souldog]

I like to share them with the board and get some feedback because I’ll be the first to admit I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed, however I don’t believe myself to be the stoopidist either (be quiet Jonathan).

I would NEVER! :0

However, good on ya for sticking to your guns! :thumbs: