Kinder, gentler CP?

[ggiese]

SamClemmons made the best point and he did it with a single sentence and no charts - we're pushing 10K because the system we have works.

If you read the newb's first post, use your head. If he is a chew toy, he'll get some teeth marks. If he's worth a shit, he'll take it and come back. Those who have been around a year or two have seen enough to be able to tell. You don't need six sigma for that! Common sense!

And there's been no change over the course of gathering those 10K members? Yes the system works, but it also changes over time, however slight. Once again, the asshats and those with bad intentions will be rooted out regardless of whether people are a little nicer to the ignorant newbs. If someone can't handle that change, maybe they should just stay away from the newbs.

Here we go again...

 

[SamClemmons]

With all due respect, Shawn, your statement tells us nothing about why the idea failed at that forum, why it may or may not fail at this forum, or anything about how these two forums are the same or different and what of that might contribute materially to the success or failure of the idea here. We don't even know why you hate it, just that you do.

Wilkey

I didn't and still don't see any reason to justify my post. I stated a fact. And that should be enough. I agree 100% with Neal that there is no reason to change a formula that works.

I'm sorry you have gotten tired of being asked over and over and over ad nauseum about fake Cubans bro, but you brought that down upon yourself, once you took the mantle of "CP's resident Cuban expert" around your capable shoulders.

Shawn

I don't see a need for justification either. Maybe he's just miffed cause you didn't submit your post in triplicate, cross reference your sources, highlight the most important aspects of your argument, post charts and graphs, or go on and on ad naseum about a relatively simple idea. Maybe it's your veracity that is in question. I, on the other hand, have no doubt that what you said is true. It would complicate things.

Newbs are vetted when they begin posting here. Part of that vetting is their response to the established members questions or suggestions. Whether or not those established members are making nice or are being mildly ascerbic toward the newbler makes little difference. It's the response to it that is telling. Fencing the bastards off from us would prolong the process.

NA

 

[CoventryCat86]

SamClemmons made the best point and he did it with a single sentence and no charts - we're pushing 10K because the system we have works.

If you read the newb's first post, use your head. If he is a chew toy, he'll get some teeth marks. If he's worth a shit, he'll take it and come back. Those who have been around a year or two have seen enough to be able to tell. You don't need six sigma for that! Common sense!

LMAO! Hey Bruce, now you're speaking my language! :laugh: Six sigma has its place in life but not here.

 

[gregor22]

Spent the better part of an hour reading all the posts and responses. I don't see an argument that makes me think that CP needs to change. It has continued to work since the days when I joined with membership growing 10 fold in that time.

Now, back to girls in tights jumping around in high definition.

 

[g-smoke]

One thing that could change, in my humble opinion, is the CigarPass homepage.

I'm a newb. Have been and will be for a long time when it comes to cigars. But I'm not a newb on the internet. One thing I'm sure of is that a landing page can make or break someone's experience with a website. Make it confusing or unclear and they'll either play it by their own rules or they'll take the first exit.

A couple suggestions I have to accommodate the newbs, based on my own experience when I joined this site:

• Ditch most of the links on the cigarpass.com homepage.
• Set up an extremely simple homepage with a very large search box, a la Google, that searches the CigarPass forum archives.
• Hide/suppress, delete the default search function that rests on the top menu of the site. The results from this search function (vs. the internal Google search engine) are terrible, clunky, and do nothing to stave off newbie questions that FOGs have answered over and over again.

We really should think of the newbie experience from the newbie perspective. They may be coming to cigarpass by simply clicking on a link that says http://www.cigarpass.com/ -- 99% of the stuff that's present on that page is difficult for a newb to understand. They don't know anything about passes, lingo, jargon, nothing about the notion of what makes CP different. While I do think the CP homepage does a lot to give the impression that this place is a few degrees different from the other cigar hubs on the web, the homepage doesn't answer a lot of the things that are going on through their heads, e.g.,

• I just got a handful of Cuban cigars from my brother-in-law -- how do I keep them fresh?
• Is Thompson/CI/Famous/JR a safe place to buy cigars?
• What does ISOM mean?

How many FOGs access CP from the homepage? I'd wager very few. The homepage is the front door to the site. It should be tailored to people who have never been here. FOGs know how to get here via the back door. Don't put things on the homepage that mean everything to FOGs but nothing to newbs. The one thing that people understand how to use on the web is a search box. But if you hide it (e.g., the bottom of the page), or make the results difficult to parse, chaos ensues.

In my own crazy view, the primary thing new people should see when they load up the CP home page is a search box with a little bit of text on top of it that says something like, "Got questions about cigars? Get your answers from the CigarPass community:"

If I wasn't working my way through a bottle of Elijah Craig (which I never knew about until lurking on the CP forums), I'd throw together a mockup of what I'm talking about...

Anyway, sorry for the rant. User experience and content on the web is something I get heated up about, for better or for worse... Let the newb slapping commence!

 

[Jonesy]

How many FOGs access CP from the homepage? I'd wager very few. The homepage is the front door to the site. It should be tailored to people who have never been here. FOGs know how to get here via the back door. Don't put things on the homepage that mean everything to FOGs but nothing to newbs.

I'm not proclaiming to be a FOG, but I access CP through the homepage everytime I use the site. There is nothing wrong with the way the homepage is set up....IMHO it's a very easy to navigate page for someone who hasn't been to the site before.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. User experience and content on the web is something I get heated up about, for better or for worse... Let the newb slapping commence!

These are the types of comments that do absolutely no good in a discussion like what we're having in this thread.....this is noobiness at it's best.

 

[Macion Grey]

How many FOGs access CP from the homepage? I'd wager very few. The homepage is the front door to the site. It should be tailored to people who have never been here. FOGs know how to get here via the back door. Don't put things on the homepage that mean everything to FOGs but nothing to newbs.

I'm not proclaiming to be a FOG, but I access CP through the homepage everytime I use the site. There is nothing wrong with the way the homepage is set up....IMHO it's a very easy to navigate page for someone who hasn't been to the site before.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. User experience and content on the web is something I get heated up about, for better or for worse... Let the newb slapping commence!

These are the types of comments that do absolutely no good in a discussion like what we're having in this thread.....this is noobiness at it's best.

X2 Mate. I use the CP homepage all the time, that is how it is linked in my favourites. The standard forum interface is that way for a good reason: it's easy to see whats going on quickly and efficiently.

The mind boggles at the concept that some people would prefer a search function taking up the whole front page, like google, rather than taking a few seconds to locate it as is.

 

[anvil]

Yep
I use the Home page every time myself.

And I too think the "Newb Slapping" comment is uncalled for.

Thank You Sir. May I Have Another.

 

[AVB]

You'd win that wager with me. I haven't used the home page since the first month I was here. Up to you to decide if I qualify for Fogdom or not.

How many FOGs access CP from the homepage? I'd wager very few.

 

[g-smoke]

These are the types of comments that do absolutely no good in a discussion like what we're having in this thread.....this is noobiness at it's best.

It was meant tongue-in-cheek. I know everyone's experience and habits online can be different. Just expressing my opinions.

Best

 

[CigarStone]

Very nice Bruce!

It's common courtesy to gently influence a stranger who may be making a faux pas. If you were at your local country club and some new, or perspective, member walked in in violation of a dress code would you sprint to him to be the first to tell him what a douche bag he is or would you, if being the first to come in contact with him, take him to the side and gently remind him of the dress code?

Granted, the fraternity we have here is different than society and/or life in general but let's allow our difference to be what makes us the best.......the generosity, fellowship, and camaraderie revolving around our love of the leaf.

 

[sonuvabum]

Newbs are vetted when they begin posting here. Part of that vetting is their response to the established members questions or suggestions. Whether or not those established members are making nice or are being mildly ascerbic toward the newbler makes little difference. It's the response to it that is telling. Fencing the bastards off from us would prolong the process.

NA

Man I love this guy!!

 

[ggiese]

One thing that could change, in my humble opinion, is the CigarPass homepage.

I'm a newb. Have been and will be for a long time when it comes to cigars. But I'm not a newb on the internet. One thing I'm sure of is that a landing page can make or break someone's experience with a website. Make it confusing or unclear and they'll either play it by their own rules or they'll take the first exit.

blah, blah, blah, blah...

Anyway, sorry for the rant. User experience and content on the web is something I get heated up about, for better or for worse... Let the newb slapping commence!

My biggest complaint has always been coming to the site and having to wade through 6 pages of new posts. I suggest we limit the number of posts per day! :whistling:

If they having trouble finding the sign up screen, than they probably will not like the community. It's not rocket science. It may be a pain - but it does not dissuade people from joining.

CP is much more than a message board. The other links Rod has put on the homepage serve the overall purpose of the community. I say Rod not tinker with a successful product...


Edited to remove a ton of useless information...

 

[ggiese]

If you were at your local country club and some new, or perspective, member walked in in violation of a dress code would you sprint to him to be the first to tell him what a douche bag he is or would you, if being the first to come in contact with him, take him to the side and gently remind him of the dress code?

Well now - I would say it would depend on the standards of the "community". If there were dress rules - no doubt the inviter would have told the prospective member to be careful in the way they dress (it would be frowned upon the dress otherwise). Certainly the minute a prospective member walked in the door, common sense would dictate to him/her they've made a mistake..

And therein lies the problem...

So now we have two choices:

Choice A: A FEW of those prospective new members you talk about would take high insult to anyone making a comment about their clothing, and take great pains to tell the person making the comment how pathetic a human being they were - thereby creating a ruckus with everyone else around.

On the other hand - Choice B: MOST prospective members would realize (very quickly indeed) they made a mistake in their appearance and would rectify the problem in short order.

I don't know about you - but I've made bad clothing choice mistakes from time to time and am very embarrassed and EXTREMELY uncomfortable when I learn it as I arrive. And that's what separates the wheat from the chaff...

Nope - no "douce bag" comment - I would just tell him/her, "What's with the whiteface and clown pants?"

Edited because I didn't want the grammar and spelling police to have a field day with my ass...

 

[ashauler]

SamClemmons made the best point and he did it with a single sentence and no charts - we're pushing 10K because the system we have works.

If you read the newb's first post, use your head. If he is a chew toy, he'll get some teeth marks. If he's worth a shit, he'll take it and come back. Those who have been around a year or two have seen enough to be able to tell. You don't need six sigma for that! Common sense!

LMAO! Hey Bruce, now you're speaking my language! :laugh: Six sigma has its place in life but not here.

Holy crap, mine too, neither one of you is gonna mention statistical process control are ya'?

 

[CoventryCat86]

SamClemmons made the best point and he did it with a single sentence and no charts - we're pushing 10K because the system we have works.

If you read the newb's first post, use your head. If he is a chew toy, he'll get some teeth marks. If he's worth a shit, he'll take it and come back. Those who have been around a year or two have seen enough to be able to tell. You don't need six sigma for that! Common sense!

LMAO! Hey Bruce, now you're speaking my language! :laugh: Six sigma has its place in life but not here.

Holy crap, mine too, neither one of you is gonna mention statistical process control are ya'?

No but maybe we need to implement Kaizen philosophy here or possibly a Design of Experiments or some Tagucci Multivariate Testing. wilkey needs a new project but before he does that, he told me he'd send me some cigars for the SLR boxes I sent him back in December.

 

[Wurm]

SamClemmons made the best point and he did it with a single sentence and no charts - we're pushing 10K because the system we have works.

If you read the newb's first post, use your head. If he is a chew toy, he'll get some teeth marks. If he's worth a shit, he'll take it and come back. Those who have been around a year or two have seen enough to be able to tell. You don't need six sigma for that! Common sense!

LMAO! Hey Bruce, now you're speaking my language! :laugh: Six sigma has its place in life but not here.

Holy crap, mine too, neither one of you is gonna mention statistical process control are ya'?

No but maybe we need to implement Kaizen philosophy here or possibly a Design of Experiments or some Tagucci Multivariate Testing. wilkey needs a new project but before he does that, he told me he'd send me some cigars for the SLR boxes I sent him back in December.

lmao... if any of you had of mentioned PDCA too, I would have ended up needing a slap on the back to stop laughing.

 

[AVB]

Don't make it too complex, just use Kanban to schedule noobie registration and questions.

 

[JHolmes763]

Choice A: A FEW of those prospective new members you talk about would take high insult to anyone making a comment about their clothing, and take great pains to tell the person making the comment how pathetic a human being they were - thereby creating a ruckus with everyone else around.

I feel that the "making a comment" part should be constructive and work towards a remedy for the problem. Others feel that almost any comment is okay and it's only about how the prospective member reacts. I guess a happy combination of both keeps new, good people coming in, overall.

 

[CigarStone]

Choice A: A FEW of those prospective new members you talk about would take high insult to anyone making a comment about their clothing, and take great pains to tell the person making the comment how pathetic a human being they were - thereby creating a ruckus with everyone else around.

I feel that the "making a comment" part should be constructive and work towards a remedy for the problem. Others feel that almost any comment is okay and it's only about how the prospective member reacts. I guess a happy combination of both keeps new, good people coming in, overall.

Many actually see it as their "job" to be the first, biggest, and most prolific abuser of a newb who makes a mistake.