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R&J 5 Short Churchills, look fake

M

mcoupe

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
196
Location
NJ
My neighbor (again) dropped off some "cuban" cigars in a box as he doesn't smoke and knew I enjoyed cigars. They are R&J Short Churchills (non-tubed) in a box labeld "5 Short Churchills." I don't know if they make them in a 5 pack but these cigars look very suspect to me. I'm no expert but here's what I noticed:

- The fonts on the cover of the box are not centered
- The cigars did not have that much of a smell to them and they seem a little dark although I don't have a real one to compare to
- Looks like there a triple caps but they look sloppy and rough in some places
- The fonts on red label look too light and uneven on all the cigars with some touching the gold. The white border also seems uneven. Is there supposed to be a dot between Habana and Cuba.

Anyone have an opinion? Thanks.

Here are a few pics:

ryjsc9.jpg


ryjsc.jpg


ryjsc7.jpg


ryjsc5.jpg


ryjsc3.jpg
 
Hard to tell from the pics, but HSA do sell the RyJ short churchills in that packaging. Sloppy pringting and a sloppy triple cap doesn't necessarily mean fake and the absence of a strong odor might just be because of storage conditions. Looking at the foot, the construction looks pretty good.
 
Sam,

You've seen the non-tubed in cardboard packs of 5? I'll have to do some digging but that doesn't look right to me. I have see the tubos in 3-packs, 5 to a mini-case, but never the non-tubed.

Oh, and by the way, the packs should have a miniature warranty seal across the top flap, front, and back complete with glowing coat of arms IIRC. I'll have to check when I get home but that's my recollection.

Wilkey
 
The PC 5 packs have 'Romeo Y Julieta' in white letters with red background, under the border at the top.
Even the 3 pack tubo's are that way.

I don't know why they would deviate from that printing.

As far as looks and construction...those look ok.

This will be interesting to see unfold!
 
Ginseng said:
Sam,

You've seen the non-tubed in cardboard packs of 5? I'll have to do some digging but that doesn't look right to me. I have see the tubos in 3-packs, 5 to a mini-case, but never the non-tubed.

Oh, and by the way, the packs should have a miniature warranty seal across the top flap, front, and back complete with glowing coat of arms IIRC. I'll have to check when I get home but that's my recollection.
Wilkey
Click to expand...


That part is correct on the three pack of tubos there are now two bands on the top. I don't like the way the Short Churchill band looks, but that may be the angle of the photo.
 
Unless the bands have recently been changed on them, those are absolutely fake. The fonts and spacing are way off and I too, don't remember them coming in a non-tubed pack. They also have a conical head, rather than a flat one. They kinda look like short 109s ??? :laugh:
 
I think the anachronistic packaging is pretty diagnostic. For example, I have a 3-ct cardboard back of Cohiba Piramides LE 06. :whistling:

Wilkey
 
Bands are all kinds of wrong on these.

I know that's not always a definitive diagnostic, but in this case I believe it is.
 
I also noticed, and you can see, the gold stamping on the front of the box is way off. The Romeo y Julieta in gold is off the red bannered background and into the image.

If you guys are pretty sure these are fakes, I'm going to light one up and then cut it open to see what's inside.
 
Yes, these look questionable.

1) The "shiny" gold color of the short churchill band looks very questionable, I seem to recall the color of this band being less shiny, and quite like the gold section of an EL band. It's difficult to tell in the picture, but it appears that the dots above the "H" indent inward (toward the cigar) instead of outward. If I'm seeing this correctly, this is another bad sign.

2) The RyJ band concerns me as well. Letters within the word "Romeo" leak into the outer gold ring and those within "Julieta" appear to leak into in the inner gold ring.

3) The cap looks horrible. Not the traditional "triple" cap.

4) Like others, I haven't seen this packaging.

Rob
 
BobbyRitz said:
Yes, these look questionable.

1) The "shiny" gold color of the short churchill band looks very questionable, I seem to recall the color of this band being less shiny, and quite like the gold section of an EL band.
Not always true now. I have authentic specimens with the old "grainy" gold ink and the new "smooth" gold ink and the "smooth" ink looks much like what's depicted in that photo. It is still a flake pigment though of a much finer grain size. If it's embossed foil laminated paper, then that would be a problem.

It's difficult to tell in the picture, but it appears that the dots above the "H" indent inward (toward the cigar) instead of outward. If I'm seeing this correctly, this is another bad sign.
If the emboss direction is reversed, a press operator would almost certainly catch it. But then again...

2) The RyJ band concerns me as well. Letters within the word "Romeo" leak into the outer gold ring and those within "Julieta" appear to leak into in the inner gold ring.
Those are registration errors and are not consequential or diagnostic on their own.

3) The cap looks horrible. Not the traditional "triple" cap.
They are damned fugly.

4) Like others, I haven't seen this packaging.
IMO, this is the critical tell.

Rob
Click to expand...
Wilkey
 
Also - I believe the 'lid'(top opening flap) is embossed...or indented or the like....this one seems to shows a smooth 'lid'.
 
Well, here is what it looks like inside. I've never really opened a cigar before but it looks like mostly long filler but there are so many shades of color in there.

ryjsc10.jpg
 
mcoupe said:
Well, here is what it looks like inside. I've never really opened a cigar before but it looks like mostly long filler but there are some made shades of color in there.
Click to expand...
You should see filler leaves of different shades. They'd correspond to the ligero, seco, and volado that go into the blend. You shouldn't see any green leaves though. I've seen some pretty skanky shite leaves inside of fakes. Many of the better counterfeits are made with long filler. Perhaps not Cuban leaf, but long filler nonetheless.

Wilkey
 
Wilkey-

Please PM box codes for those Short Churchills that contain the new shiny SC band, for I'd like to get some for comparison. I have a few boxes of '06-'07 SCs and do not recall seeing anything as shiny as those depicted above.

With respect to the RyJ band, I looked at the five SCs that I have in my humidor at work. I understand that I cannot extrapolate the results of viewing five cigars, or cannot qualify as a representative sample, but in each case, the words "Romeo" and "Julieta" are evenly configured within the inner and outer gold rings.

Rob
 
I'll look, Rob but I'm down to one or two packs of tubes and a few singles. I haven't put up any in a while. And remember, I said they look much like what I've seen not identical. With low resolution web images, I always hesitate when it comes to fine features or textures. It's just not reliable.

And as for the spacing and registration, my comment was in the general. I don't have a humidor here at the university. :p I'll dig a bit when I get home.

Wilkey
 
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