Small Firearms suggestions

[Unclebillybonz]

I'm not sure what permit or tax you are talking about. The only people that know I bought a shotgun are me and the guy I bought it from. There wasn't any government paperwork involved. While I don't know the letter of the law I'm fairly certain you can mod a firearm as you wish on your property you might not be able to sell it though.

Find an old shotgun, cut it down to a a 15" barrel

Please don't do this, as unless you're prepared to jump through a bunch of hoops to get permits and/or tax stamps, you'd be committing a federal felony. 18" is the minimum legal barrel length.

I'm not certain on the minium length for a shotgun barrel but I'm certain there is one. You are certainly not allowed to legally own a 'sawed off' shotgun. a quick check of the net it looks like 18 inches is the legal minimum in the U.S.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_mini..._shotgun_barrel

*edited for link

 

[Gawl]

Technically what AVB is saying is that there is no paperwork for the gun, so technically it is legal. My buddy just built a FAL, the owner of the shop he picked it up from forgot to have him do the paperwork as they were busy, as such he has a weapon that has no paperwork and therefore doesn't exist. There is a legal limit on a shotgun bbl length and I do believe it is 18 inches, if there is no paperwork though, who's to say its not legal

 

[handyman dave]

All you shotgun advocates, how much actual spread does your scattergun give you in the 15 ft between your side of the bed and the door? I suggest you still need to aim more or less accurately if you are going to hit someone.

I'll keep my Glock with tritium sights next to my bed thank you very much.

 

[mufflerman]

The minimum barrel length on a shotgun in the US is 18", with an overall length of 26". Rifle have a 16" minimum. Barrel length is measured from the end of the breech face, with the bolt closed, to the end of the barrel. A "sawed-off" shotgun is perfectly legal as long as it falls over the minimum lengths. To possess a shotgun shorter than that without registration is a violation of Federal law. Anyone can make and register a short-barrel shotgun by filing a form with the ATF and paying a $200 tax.

Aside from that, a shotgun is an excellent home defense weapon. Easy to learn to use, and with reduced recoil round, easy to shoot. But training is mandatory. Practice, practice, practice. Practice operating and dry firing. Practice loading in all positions and in the dark. Practice jam drills. Shoot a bunch at the range. You and your spouse must be as comfortable operating any gun as you are driving your car.

Also, the classic "pumping the shotgun to scare them away" is extremely stupid. First, if you do that then you weren't ready to shoot in the first place. What if they pop around the corner and surprise YOU? You're standing there with an unloaded shotgun. Second, you're advertising where you are. You want surprise on YOUR side.

James, muffler man and gun dealer

 

[Gawl]

Also, the classic "pumping the shotgun to scare them away" is extremely stupid. First, if you do that then you weren't ready to shoot in the first place. What if they pop around the corner and surprise YOU? You're standing there with an unloaded shotgun. Second, you're advertising where you are. You want surprise on YOUR side.

Lol nicely said, yeah I never agreed with the thought of racking the shotgun to scare them away. I keep mine ready to roll, the only noise they will hear is the sound of the round going off before they get knocked over.

I want to say one last thing, whatever you go with, practice practice practice! Getting a gun isn't something you do and just put away for a rainy day. Most gun owners approach them as tools to save your life and treat them as such. It sounds silly to be practicing loading in the dark, chambering duds to practice failure to fire drills, breaking down your pistol and reassembling it in the dark and clearing rooms. All that is essential though to learning how to get the most of out the tool you choose. Its like cigar smoking, it took a while for your pallet to develop before you found your nitch, same with guns.

Besides:

 

[DesertRat]

Ruger GP-100 .357 Magnum revolver, 4" barrel.

1. It's built like a tank, and can be found VERY affordably at gun shows.
2. It also fires .38 caliber rounds, which are a)lots cheaper, and b)all you really need for home defense, and c)easier to shoot, especially for your wife . . . but still gives you the .357 option.
3. It's a revolver. Point and click interface. First handguns should always be as simple as possible.

I have one with concealed carry mods (shaved hammer, groove sights) and love it.

~Boar

I have a GP-100 and love it. Although it is a bit heavy for concealed carry it is a great home defense weapon and when loaded with .38's it barely has any recoil for the wife to worry about.

That said, my wife prefers the stainless steel AMT .380 Kurz Backup since it is lightweight and easier for her to handle.

 

[TampaSupremo]

Beretta or CZ are fine weapons. Either will serve you well (and CZ's are reasonably priced to boot).

The mentality of pointing a shotgun in a general direction and hoping that the scatter will hit the intended target is at best, faulty, and at worst, fatal. Handyman Dave had it right:

All you shotgun advocates, how much actual spread does your scattergun give you in the 15 ft between your side of the bed and the door? I suggest you still need to aim more or less accurately if you are going to hit someone.

Plus, the whole point of a shotgun's effectiveness (when used for defense) is to keep the spread tight enough that it does maximum damage to the intended target.

Regardless of the type of weapon, you need a powerful flashlight to identify and if necessary, blind your target. Weaponlights are easly obtained for shotguns and a Streamlight or Surefire is perfect for handgun use.

Finally, do not try to find that perfect gun or round guaranteed to take out your opponent with one shot and don't expect to pull the trigger once and see him/her fall. I believe I can speak for all the other LEO's on here that the minimum training standard is a double tap to the chest and sometimes one to the head after that.

Practice. Do not stop practicing. In fact, if you practice continuously, it doesn't matter if you buy a revolver, autopistol, or shotgun because you will be able to clear any malfunction without thinking and be right back on target.

TampaSupremo

P.S. Depending how the election goes, you may want to invest in some extra full capacity magazines (i.e. more than 10 rounds) if you decide on the autopistol.

 

[rectifythis]

My wife and I both like SPRINGFIELD XD's. She has the 9mm sub-compact (about $500). HOWEVER, just because this is the right gun for her, does not mean it will be right for you. If a gun is uncomfortable in your hand, don't buy it. A perfect example of this is the Glock. We both hate it. It doesn't feel right to us. But half the guys you talk to love them.

Try some out before making a decision. This is just my general opinion, but if the firearm is too cheap (like a couple hundred bucks) and my life depends on it....it makes me nervous.

 

[Not A Nice Person]

You might consider:

A Judge by Taurus

I didn't realize Taurus made those now . . . kewlness. I'll have to check on pricing at the next gun show I get to, as I've been admiring the 4510---okay, LUSTING after, lol---for some time now. :whistling:

~Boar

 

[Turk10mm]

If you want a shotgun that bad, you might as well make it something you can easily weild. I'll stick to my guns on this one, a shotgun's pattern does not spread very far in close quarters. Heck, it doesn't spread very far at 25 yards.

I suggest a simple to use Glock Compact in 40sw or 9mm if you must. The 40 is far superior imho.

But, if you are dead set on a shotgun, get this one. its an AOW so you have to fill out a trust form and the tax stamp is $5 instead of $200 for a short barreled shotgun with a stock. Because it has no stock and is short barreled it is not classified by the batfe as a short barreled shotty, but instead an "Any Other Weapon" Its suprisingly easy to shoot with two hands and is a natural pointer.

This is my next purchase as soon as my Form 1 comes back on my AR and my Form 4 for my suppressor arrives on the 308. Its super easy. You make a trust using willmaker pro, you fill out the form, you send your check, form, and trust documents to the ATF, wait 3 months and presto you can own things people think are "illegal".

http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php

 

[Turk10mm]

Just to add a couple of thoughts...

-I think a Glock is a terrible idea for someone who isn't very accustomed to handling guns.

+1

I completely disagree. There's only 2 rules you have to remember with a glock. Don't point it at anything you aren't willing to destroy and don't touch the damn trigger until you are ready for it to go bang.

If you follow those KISS (keep it simple stupid) rules a glock is one of the finest weapons ever made for home defense. As long as the gun is in a safe location from children (locked or secured with approved child safety device), loaded, and a round in the chamber, the only reason you should ever touch it is to use it, or pick up, point in safe direction, index your trigger finger along the frame, drop the mag, pull the slide and eject the chambered round. Then take it wherever you want after verifying with your pinky that the chamber is empty. Same rules as any gun actually. Glocks just require less thinking and fewer motions to fire than many other handguns.

If you are planning on carrying a glock and having to handle it often during holstering, unholstering, making safe, locking in a vehicle lock box, etc. THEN, i would not suggest a glock without additional experience and training with it. Its not forgiving. If you pull the trigger its gonna shoot. There's no "accident" in accidental discharge if you ask me but a glock is far easier to have an AD with if you don't respect it and you are buggering about with it.

There's no other reason to touch it.

The simple fact is with any firearm you must train. Shoot brass Shoot brass Shoot brass, think about shooting brass and repeat.

 

[tigger]

Because it has no stock and the original receiver left the factory that way and is short barreled it is not classified by the batfe as a short barreled shotty, but instead an "Any Other Weapon"

Added the bold part so that no one gets any ideas...

As far as Glocks go, they are less forgiving, IMO, than some other platforms if someone without (or with, for that matter) practice and experience neglects the two rules you've stated. that shouldn't happen, but it does.

 

[Turk10mm]

Because it has no stock and the original receiver left the factory that way and is short barreled it is not classified by the batfe as a short barreled shotty, but instead an "Any Other Weapon"

Added the bold part so that no one gets any ideas...

As far as Glocks go, they are less forgiving, IMO, than some other platforms if someone without (or with, for that matter) practice and experience neglects the two rules you've stated. that shouldn't happen, but it does.

good call. thanks for the modification. If you want to convert your stocked shotgun to an AOW, I believe you can fill out a form 1 to make a firearm, but that stamp is $200.

 

[gunsandcigars88]

A 1911 is not a handgun that requires any more practice than another handgun. B

I disagree.

I own a 1911 and have owned or still own a glock, beretta, and ruger auto. The 1911 with it's beavertail grip safety, being a SA and having it 'cocked and locked', it's tendency to be finicky with certain ammo and it's maintenance requirements is A LOT different from your basic glock or ruger. If we are talking about becoming profficient enough to trust ones life on a firearm then IMO a 1911 requires MORE practice and hands on experience than other handguns.

edited for spelling.

I own a 1911 as well. I am an IDPA Competitor with it, and have been operating it for quite some time. I have put well over 10,000 rounds thru this gun, and it has never seen a single jam. It is all about choosing a quality gun. It has had absolutely no work done to it whatsoever. As far as the beavertail grip safety, it is disengaged as soon as you grip the gun(If that is hard to operate there is something wrong with you). A single action doesn't make it any harder either. When its cocked and locked you simply flip the safety and you are ready to go, and your thumb naturally rests on the safety so that is a natural movement. For the final issue of maintenance, all you have to do is like any other gun. After you go shoot it, you clean it. Mine has seen times where it was being shot heavily on the weekend, and might see around 600-700 rounds without cleaning. But it still never jammed. I don't see how you are coming to your conclusions? I think you need to spend a little more time in the 1911 world before debating this.
B

 

[Napa_Smokes]

A 1911 is not a handgun that requires any more practice than another handgun. B

I disagree.

I own a 1911 and have owned or still own a glock, beretta, and ruger auto. The 1911 with it's beavertail grip safety, being a SA and having it 'cocked and locked', it's tendency to be finicky with certain ammo and it's maintenance requirements is A LOT different from your basic glock or ruger. If we are talking about becoming profficient enough to trust ones life on a firearm then IMO a 1911 requires MORE practice and hands on experience than other handguns.

edited for spelling.

I own a 1911 as well. I am an IDPA Competitor with it, and have been operating it for quite some time. I have put well over 10,000 rounds thru this gun, and it has never seen a single jam. It is all about choosing a quality gun. It has had absolutely no work done to it whatsoever. As far as the beavertail grip safety, it is disengaged as soon as you grip the gun(If that is hard to operate there is something wrong with you). A single action doesn't make it any harder either. When its cocked and locked you simply flip the safety and you are ready to go, and your thumb naturally rests on the safety so that is a natural movement. For the final issue of maintenance, all you have to do is like any other gun. After you go shoot it, you clean it. Mine has seen times where it was being shot heavily on the weekend, and might see around 600-700 rounds without cleaning. But it still never jammed. I don't see how you are coming to your conclusions? I think you need to spend a little more time in the 1911 world before debating this.
B

I typically try to stay out of these debates. I do have to agree with Brandon on this one. My fiancee started off shooting a .22 Sig Sauer Mosquito. She quickly outgrew this and moved onto a 9 mm Glock and Sig P228. She hated the Glock, although it was light weight the recoil was not something she enjoyed. She also tried a revolver and beretta. Both excellent guns but didn't do it for her. From there she moved to a 1911, I have since had them made for her in 9mm, .40, 10mm, and .45 acp. She is more accurate with this then any other gun she has shot. She keeps it cocked and locked in her night stand. Practices dry firing and goes to the range often. At one point we where putting between 800-1200 rounds a day through one of the guns without a single jam.


As for the right gun for Gonz, my suggestion is try out as many as you can. Find the one that you and your wife are the most comfortable with and go with that. Spend as much time practicing at the range as you can to make sure you are both comfortable and proficient with. Shotguns take as much practice as a hand gun to use and move effectively in close quarters. You never want to give up the element of surprise by having to rack a shotgun or racking the slide of your handgun. So keeping it loaded and ready is the only way to go imho.

 

[Unclebillybonz]

I never said 'harder' I said different. If you don't see the difference between shooting something like a Beretta or a Sig versus a Colt or Kimber 1911 I don't know what to tell you. While I might not be a competative shooter like you are I've spent the better part of my 33 yrs around firearms and feel very qualified to offer up an opinion or two regarding the subject.

 

[souldog]

Ugh. Just get a damn slingshot and call it a day!!

Here is Bruce's thread with much of the same responses from other sources:

http://www.cigarpass.com/forums/index.php?...c=45775&hl=

I do not currently own a gun. Wife and I have agreed that personal protection is an issue. I will not hesitate to take the life of someone who is a threat to me or my family. Wife will also do what it takes. My experience in the service was extensive, but of limited use in this case. I have my orders, so here are my goals:

1. Personal protection in the home.
2. Portable and easy to load and fire
3. One shot, target goes down.
4. ~$600
5. Bling is not an issue, but I do NOT want an ugly gun.
6. Not intended for concealed carry...yet.


What advice do you have?

The wifey and I are looking for a little home security and are thinking about a small handgun. What would you suggest that the wife and I could use that is fairly cheap?

You both are looking for something small, cheap, and easy for the wife to use.

PS- Kimber's are for sissies!!

 

[Josh]

PS- Kimber's are for sissies!!

:love: Jon

 

[sned45]

As for the right gun for Gonz, my suggestion is try out as many as you can. Find the one that you and your wife are the most comfortable with and go with that. Spend as much time practicing at the range as you can to make sure you are both comfortable and proficient with. Shotguns take as much practice as a hand gun to use and move effectively in close quarters. You never want to give up the element of surprise by having to rack a shotgun or racking the slide of your handgun. So keeping it loaded and ready is the only way to go imho.

Some good advice from Napa.

And I love my 1911's.

 

[MX]

Walther PPK/S .380

This is what I have...um would have if the Belgians would let me have a gun :whistling:

Is the best gun ever, nope, I like my 1911 much better. Will you and your wife be able to use it, I am pretty sure yes.

Like I am sure has been said, if you ask 10 people what is best you will get 9 different answers, at least 2 people will agree that the 1911 is the best gun ever made :laugh:

There are a lot of things to think about; is it ok if you shoot through a wall? Do your kids need to be able to shoot it? Form? Function? or Fashion?

Best thing to do is find a store that has a try before you buy program. Remember Gun Dealer not Pawn Shop!!!

Find some friends that have guns, shoot theirs, a lot. Shoot at life like targets not round bulls eyes.

I have pulled the trigger in defense of myself and my fellow man more times than I care to remember. It never gets easy, just know why you are shooting and what you are shooting at.

I will pass on 4 rules that have guided me through my gun filled life:
1. Treat all weapons as loaded weapons.
2. Keep your finger of the trigger until you are ready to fire.
3. Know your target, and what is beyond.
4. Shoot to kill.

Remember, this is all my thoughts and opinions, and by no means expert advice.

Tim