COVID-19 vaccine, you getting it?

[Nihon_Ni]

My employer has already informed us they are going to require all employees to get the vaccine before returning to the office in June. As a sales rep we are exempt and will not be returning to the office but I figured if the rest of our company is doing it then I should as well.

What state do you work in? My team at work is spread across several states and Japan, and we've been discussing with our company lawyer if it is legal or not to mandate vaccines. California has a very different take on worker's rights than many other states, and we're finding there's no one-size-fits-all answer to this question.

 

[ConDaddy]

What state do you work in? My team at work is spread across several states and Japan, and we've been discussing with our company lawyer if it is legal or not to mandate vaccines. California has a very different take on worker's rights than many other states, and we're finding there's no one-size-fits-all answer to this question.

Im actually located in Arizona. While the company is requiring it for anyone returning to office in their first phase. If someone objects to the vaccine their not going to be terminated. They will just be required to stay remote until a later phase. Their still working out all of the logistics with this. The first phase they have planned is currently scheduled for sometime in June.

 

[TexasTraveler]

Im actually located in Arizona. While the company is requiring it for anyone returning to office in their first phase. If someone objects to the vaccine their not going to be terminated. They will just be required to stay remote until a later phase. Their still working out all of the logistics with this. The first phase they have planned is currently scheduled for sometime in June.

They are opening themselves up to HUGE lawsuits...

 

[ConDaddy]

They are opening themselves up to HUGE lawsuits...

Yeah I don’t doubt that. I was a little shocked when they made that announcement last week during our all hands meeting. We have offices in about 8 different states but the announcement was strictly for our Arizona office. The other offices do not have any plans yet to return.
Arizona compared with other states basically has no workers rights laws haha. Especially compared to our neighboring California.

 

[TexasTraveler]

Yeah I don’t doubt that. I was a little shocked when they made that announcement last week during our all hands meeting. We have offices in about 8 different states but the announcement was strictly for our Arizona office. The other offices do not have any plans yet to return.
Arizona compared with other states basically has no workers rights laws haha. Especially compared to our neighboring California.

Disregard I read your post wrong

 

[ConDaddy]

You don't think that if your company requires someone to take a vaccine and they die from it, there won't be a lawsuit from their family? I know its an extreme case ,but it is plausible... On the other hand if someone doesn't take the vaccine and they are then terminated for whatever reason, regardless of a right to work state, a lawsuit is coming... Not saying your company would not win that case, but rest assure someone will sue...

Oh I’m in no way disagreeing with you. I was a little shocked to hear they made that decision. I guess they are hoping the VC that owns our company has enough money in the bank haha.

 

[CigarStone]

I agree with your observation concerning "too much unknown" but I will likely still get the vaccine.

One thing I am curious about: I have yet to see any vaccine manufacturer, or the CDC, post any information on the clinical trials for any of the vaccines.
IMO, if those that produce products (vaccines in this case) of such supposed importance to the general public, and if those that highly recommend (CDC & WHO) the general public get one of the vaccines, then why wouldn't they all make readily available the methodology of the clinical trials data, to the general public, right off the bat?

Why should something that is supposedly so important to world health be hidden, and those that are interested (like myself) have to go searching about in attempts to gain that information?

I don't care for the implications. It doesn't look good on the surface. I can't be the only one that sees this.

Trusting the CDC and WHO is like trusting the coalition of foxes published report on how to best guard your henhouse.

 

[Nihon_Ni]

Im actually located in Arizona. While the company is requiring it for anyone returning to office in their first phase. If someone objects to the vaccine their not going to be terminated. They will just be required to stay remote until a later phase. Their still working out all of the logistics with this. The first phase they have planned is currently scheduled for sometime in June.

Thanks. From what our lawyer is advising, I think they are on firm ground to open the office only to those who are vaccinated so long as they allow those who aren't to telework. That situation can't go on forever, so eventually, it will come to a head, but as an initial position, I think it's legal and probably a good practice to transition back to in-person norms.

 

[stogie fan]

I really appreciate this thread, as I've wanted to discuss these issues with others but it's been so politically and emotionally charged that I haven't dared to bring this up among coworkers or friends. Thanks for everyone's efforts to keep this discussion free of those landmines while we dialogue about it.



Frankly, I never thought of this but I can certainly see this as a benefit now that you mention it.

I lived in Japan during the SARS outbreak and the H1N1 pandemic. SARS infected tens of thousands, H1N1 infected tens of millions, mostly concentrated in Asia. At the time, I lived and traveled throughout the region without so much as a moment's concern about getting sick.

While I say I'm not concerned about COVID, there is a bit of an asterisk to that statement. I'm not concerned enough to curtail any of the activities I would otherwise do, but I do realize there is a possibility that I could get sick. But I had never thought about how a vaccine could give me additional peace of mind, so I'll have to consider that. It's probably like the peace of mind I got when one day I decided to reach into my investment account and withdraw some cash to pay off my mortgage 10 years early. Although I'm pretty analytical, and I had measured the risk of a mortgage vs. the higher potential gain of having money invested in mutual funds, there was a distinct peace of mind that came over me when I logged into my mortgage account a week later and it said, "Paid in Full." I must have stared at that screen for 10 minutes and let the gravity of officially owning my own home wash over me. It was a feeling I wasn't expecting, and I bet it's the same type of thing the vaccine provides.

Paid off my mortgage about 18 months ago; it cost me $110 large and for me, that is a chunk of scratch but I am saving $$$$ annually by no longer paying interest on the loan.
Sure, I would rather have the $110K in a liquid/cash form for whatever (cigars ) but when I'm paying so little on principal, and so much on interest, that was the route I went.
Don't know if that was the right decision but I don't regret it, yet.

 

[stogie fan]

Trusting the CDC and WHO is like trusting the coalition of foxes published report on how to best guard your henhouse.

Obtaining information is one thing.

Trust is a completely different ball park ...................

 

[CigarStone]

Obtaining information is one thing.

Trust is a completely different ball park ...................

Yes but if you are getting info from a wholly unreliable source, are you really educating yourself or just going down the prescribed rabbit hole?

 

[stogie fan]

Yes but if you are getting info from a wholly unreliable source, are you really educating yourself or just going down the prescribed rabbit hole?

I believe my post (#95) covers it; CDC, WHO, manufacturers, etc.

I am not aware of any of them putting out hard/solid clinical data in regard to the vaccine trials, for public consumption.

How can someone determine what is, and what is not reliable, if the data has yet to be presented?

Maybe we're on the same page; maybe not?

 

[CigarStone]

I believe my post (#95) covers it; CDC, WHO, manufacturers, etc.

I am not aware of any of them putting out hard/solid clinical data in regard to the vaccine trials, for public consumption.

How can someone determine what is, and what is not reliable, if the data has yet to be presented?

Maybe we're on the same page; maybe not?

Probably.

I just find it a lot better for my little brain to look at it all like this. If a politician said it, it's a lie; if a politically motivated organization said it, odds are it's a lie; if it is in the news, it is guaranteed to be a lie.

 

[stogie fan]

Probably.

I just find it a lot better for my little brain to look at it all like this. If a politician said it, it's a lie; if a politically motivated organization said it, odds are it's a lie; if it is in the news, it is guaranteed to be a lie.

Politics? I thought we were trying to keep that out of the mix? My bad .............

 

[CigarStone]

Politics? I thought we were trying to keep that out of the mix? My bad .............

No problem.

 

[stogie fan]

A friendly virologist from a guitar forum pointed me in the direction of the below links.
I don't know if the links explain the information I am seeking as I have not read the links yet.
We shall see, as I have some reading to do.
Tilt did not provide any info for the Johnson & Johnson vaccine so, sorry; don't have that one.


Here is info for the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577?query=featured_home


Here is info for the Moderna vaccine
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2035389


Here is info for the AstraZeneca vaccine
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32661-1/fulltext

 

[CigarStone]

I’m most likely going to get it once I have the option. My parents are both done with shot #1 and will receive their second shot tomorrow. After the first shot my mom got extremely sick for about 48 hours. Which I wasn’t expecting since they bit already had Covid and went through it about 3 months ago.

My employer has already informed us they are going to require all employees to get the vaccine before returning to the office in June. As a sales rep we are exempt and will not be returning to the office but I figured if the rest of our company is doing it then I should as well.

That is unfortunate, and unconstitutional. I wonder if companies are weighing the possibility of future lawsuits if someone suffers or dies from the vaccine?

The last employer I had who "forced" me to take vaccines was Uncle Sam and I got damn sick every time I did.

 

[Nihon_Ni]

That is unfortunate, and unconstitutional. I wonder if companies are weighing the possibility of future lawsuits if someone suffers or dies from the vaccine?

Jeff, I had the same reaction when I first read this, but on closer inspection I saw the his company is only requiring vaccinations to work from the office. Those who haven't been vaccinated have to continue to telework. According to the legal advice my company is getting, this is permissible. It's not forcing vaccines on anyone, it's restricting entrance into the company office.

 

[TexasTraveler]

Jeff, I had the same reaction when I first read this, but on closer inspection I saw the his company is only requiring vaccinations to work from the office. Those who haven't been vaccinated have to continue to telework. According to the legal advice my company is getting, this is permissible. It's not forcing vaccines on anyone, it's restricting entrance into the company office.

I get what your saying but I do not think that would hold up in court... even if taken voluntary, unless the company is having the employees that choose to take vaccine sign a waiver, they could be held liable for unwanted results...

 

[CigarStone]

Jeff, I had the same reaction when I first read this, but on closer inspection I saw the his company is only requiring vaccinations to work from the office. Those who haven't been vaccinated have to continue to telework. According to the legal advice my company is getting, this is permissible. It's not forcing vaccines on anyone, it's restricting entrance into the company office.

I get what your saying but I do not think that would hold up in court... even if taken voluntary, unless the company is having the employees that choose to take vaccine sign a waiver, they could be held liable for unwanted results...

It makes more sense that it's "if you come back to the office, you must be vaccinated" but I can't help but think there will be someone who will "need" to be in the office and therefore have to have the shots......and bad things could happen.

I guess all we can do is hope for the best.