Sorry, But I Have to Do This

[Gonz]

I've always maintained that poker should be played for money. Everybody likes money and it's easy to count. This would eliminate the what is a stick worth controversies, that arise every so often. And Don, take Brian's advice, stop posting untill you pay your bills.

Doc.

I agree.

Not that this thread is a place for debating how or why we play poker around here, but seeing as it's a cigar community doesn't is make sense that people have chosen to play for cigars? If they wanted to play for cash then they can just go to a cash site. The folks who play poker here have decided what for and how they will play.

 

[Nimrod]

I've always maintained that poker should be played for money. Everybody likes money and it's easy to count. This would eliminate the what is a stick worth controversies, that arise every so often. And Don, take Brian's advice, stop posting untill you pay your bills.

Doc.

I agree.

Not that this thread is a place for debating how or why we play poker around here, but seeing as it's a cigar community doesn't is make sense that people have chosen to play for cigars? If they wanted to play for cash then they can just go to a cash site. The folks who play poker here have decided what for and how they will play.

Yes, I agree with your assessment. But cigar brand A does not equal cigar brand B.
For example:
The game is $8-$10 MSRP, not what you paid for them. MSRP...that is the key! There are plenty of cigars out there with a MSRP of $27 yet you can find them on sale for $3-$5. (Gurka, RP to name a few.) So you may win a 4 pack of Gurkas, yet when it is time to pay your share, you pay out with cigars that truly are in the $8-$10 range. This system works against those who do not purchase overly priced MSRP sticks.

Gonz, the only way I see around this issue is to have every player post what cigars they are putting in the pot before the game starts. This
way, if there is any complaint, it is dealt with first, not after. Once everyone agrees then there can be no argument what one wins.

peter

 

[Nimrod]

Instead of playing for "premium" cigars.
Before each game make sure everyone is on board as to what type of cigar they are willing to give out/accept.

"BE SPECIFIC"

I had an issue when paying out a member. I sent 5 habanos. Which in his mind were not "premium" prices. But they were still sticks he did not have access to. So in a sense they were a "premium" cigar in my logic. But I was wrong with this logic. Others said if you say min $10 dollar per stick you should have sent $10.oo sticks. So if I would have sent him 5 shitty cigars but they cost me $10 a piece he still would have complained I sent him horseshit cigars.

That is why I do not play poker anymore. Too much left to interpetation.

On the rare occasion I do play I always have ppl specify acceptable cigars. Example.

"Ok guys lets play for Habanos. Or lets play for Opus/Anejo/Padron/VSG. "

So what I learned from this thread.

-So be specific as to what cigars are at acceptable to the group playing
-pay off you poker debt immediately
-if you are in debt to various ppl do not continue to play until you can pay off your debt.
-dont expect to win other games in order to pay off your debts because you will always end up losing (ask any gambling addict)
-communication is the key

Good points, Alex. Take any chance of ambiguity away before play starts. These could be a start of the "poker rules" to be listed and pinned as Rod requested. I'm guessing the poker players will be able to elaborate on these points as needed.

I agree here.

 

[Wurm]

"Take as long as you need..." has always meant to me

Until the very first moment you can afford to pay me back

So participating in other things (here at CP) requiring money before your debts were cleared was not a good idea and the reason your in this mess now.

I don't think you have doomed yourself to the ban-stick, but you might as well get used to the idea that more than a few of us will not be dealing with you in the near future when it comes to trades and buys.

 

[CigarStone]

Hi

This is my reply and will be the last time I speak of it. I did have a 34 stick owed count. What was failed to be mentioned is I only owe 10 sticks now. I conversed with you a few days ago Jim and you stated you were unhappy. I made you a offer of five 1998 Hoyo Du Prince sticks that you said you would be happy with. You now go and put my private business out there for all to see. You sir are two-faced and spine-less in my book.

Ok this is for the community since my private business was put out there. I loss my shirt there and had paid out many a stick. I ran into a problem where I did have to lend my brother a rather large sum of money to stop his house from being foreclosed on. This is not unknown as it was in one of my posts around that time.

I messaged the guys involved

Nimrod-6 sticksPaid

dsav101-4 sticksPaid

fourthrail-4 stickspaid

Slcraiders-10 sticks5 sticks which he did not like he failed to mention I also included a VR Unicos and he accepted and said was quite happy with so 5 are owed

Dkprlp-10 sticks5 sticks sent he is not happy has spoke with him and worked it out

I owe a total of 10 sticks not 34 anymore. I have never done anybody wrong here. I have had items sent to me before payment more than once and every one gets paid.

My biggest problem with the whole thing is when the thing with my brother came down I spoke with all involved. I was told to take whatever time was needed a couple of the guys I believe Nimrod and Dsav101 both offered to just wipe it out and I declined.

I was never contacted by any of the guys about this. A week to 10 days ago(not sure exactly)Jonsey contacts me and asks me about the poker debt and tells me I need to be out of the pass. I explained the situation to him and that I will start to get the sticks out to them and he decides to allow me to stay in. The next day I go to my local smoke and spent $148 on 20 cigars and sent them out with a VR Unicos in a couple of packages and did not count them as sticks owed.

I get another PM from Jonsey a few days ago. Again not slcraiders or dkprlp ever contacted me to voice displeasure with the sticks. Jonsey says a couple of the guys were not happy with the sticks I think you need to leave the pass. I told him I understand he said one of the quotes he got was quote he owed me 14 sticks and 12 of them were $4 sticks. Whoever told that to Jonsey told a outright lie. The most sticks I owed any one person was 10.

Now the part where I made a mistake. Yes I took part in some GB and stuff but I always did it in public on the boards. I very easily have done it via private pm and none of the poker guys would have know if I was trying to stiff then. Again my financial situation was not good and I really should have been holding back from these purchases. I get caught up in these high end sticks and spend money I really should not be spending.

I will part with saying that I believe if any of the guys had contacted me instead of Jonsey I believe this all could have been avoided. I still do not believe that the Sancho Panza torps and ERDM I sent are dog rockets. Jim if as you stated you threw them back at me then where are the damn cigars you got a DC#?.

This I was not going to mention but now I will. I stopped playing 1 because of the debt but 2 there is some funny stuff going on also. Not saying anyone is outright cheating. When I was playing you needed 3 players before the game would begin. On more than 1 occasion we had 2 and I forget which one of the guys did it but there was a fake player he was called Big Bogus or something along those lines. That tells me that someone has more than 1 account and has another computer handy so that made me uneasy.

I have nothing more to say about it. My debt is down to 10 sticks 5 of which will be going to Jim as soon as my package of Hoyo that I got from a member of this board arrives tomorrow(he was very sick or they would have been here already)and Rogers sticks are going out soon and has been discussed with him already. I feel this was personal and should not have been brought up but Jim did. For whatever reason he made it sound like I was going to stiff them. I again have never stiffed anyone here and never would.

If people feel that I am not to be trusted and do not want to deal with me I cannot control that. I will say I am sorry to the guys in the poker room that it took this long but still feel you should have contacted me.

My last words are Souldog your are highly respected here but your comment are way out of line for someone who has not heard both sides of the story. SamClemmons I know your outstanding reputation here but come on now that team is bought and paid for and my debts are being paid.

Again Jim I feel you have no class what so ever my friend.

If anyone want to discuss this more with me feel free to PM me I will discuss it with you but I will no longer comment on my personal business on the open forum.

Best Regards
Don

Don:

I don't know you at all but there are a couple things that jump out at me.

In your retort you indicate that you had to go buy cigars to repay your debt with......this means you entered into games without the sticks to pay if you lost.......this is a sign of a habitual gambler.

You also admit to sending $3 - $4 sticks in an attempt to to pay a $8 per stick debt.......this is another sign of a habitual gambler.......maybe you should look in to that as a priority.

I agree with Brian (Infinity) when he says to get your house in order, pay your debts and don't post again until you do.

 

[pembroke3355]

Hi

This is my reply and will be the last time I speak of it. I did have a 34 stick owed count. What was failed to be mentioned is I only owe 10 sticks now. I conversed with you a few days ago Jim and you stated you were unhappy. I made you a offer of five 1998 Hoyo Du Prince sticks that you said you would be happy with. You now go and put my private business out there for all to see. You sir are two-faced and spine-less in my book.

Ok this is for the community since my private business was put out there. I loss my shirt there and had paid out many a stick. I ran into a problem where I did have to lend my brother a rather large sum of money to stop his house from being foreclosed on. This is not unknown as it was in one of my posts around that time.

I messaged the guys involved

Nimrod-6 sticksPaid

dsav101-4 sticksPaid

fourthrail-4 stickspaid

Slcraiders-10 sticks5 sticks which he did not like he failed to mention I also included a VR Unicos and he accepted and said was quite happy with so 5 are owed

Dkprlp-10 sticks5 sticks sent he is not happy has spoke with him and worked it out

I owe a total of 10 sticks not 34 anymore. I have never done anybody wrong here. I have had items sent to me before payment more than once and every one gets paid.

My biggest problem with the whole thing is when the thing with my brother came down I spoke with all involved. I was told to take whatever time was needed a couple of the guys I believe Nimrod and Dsav101 both offered to just wipe it out and I declined.

I was never contacted by any of the guys about this. A week to 10 days ago(not sure exactly)Jonsey contacts me and asks me about the poker debt and tells me I need to be out of the pass. I explained the situation to him and that I will start to get the sticks out to them and he decides to allow me to stay in. The next day I go to my local smoke and spent $148 on 20 cigars and sent them out with a VR Unicos in a couple of packages and did not count them as sticks owed.

I get another PM from Jonsey a few days ago. Again not slcraiders or dkprlp ever contacted me to voice displeasure with the sticks. Jonsey says a couple of the guys were not happy with the sticks I think you need to leave the pass. I told him I understand he said one of the quotes he got was quote he owed me 14 sticks and 12 of them were $4 sticks. Whoever told that to Jonsey told a outright lie. The most sticks I owed any one person was 10.

Now the part where I made a mistake. Yes I took part in some GB and stuff but I always did it in public on the boards. I very easily have done it via private pm and none of the poker guys would have know if I was trying to stiff then. Again my financial situation was not good and I really should have been holding back from these purchases. I get caught up in these high end sticks and spend money I really should not be spending.

I will part with saying that I believe if any of the guys had contacted me instead of Jonsey I believe this all could have been avoided. I still do not believe that the Sancho Panza torps and ERDM I sent are dog rockets. Jim if as you stated you threw them back at me then where are the damn cigars you got a DC#?.

This I was not going to mention but now I will. I stopped playing 1 because of the debt but 2 there is some funny stuff going on also. Not saying anyone is outright cheating. When I was playing you needed 3 players before the game would begin. On more than 1 occasion we had 2 and I forget which one of the guys did it but there was a fake player he was called Big Bogus or something along those lines. That tells me that someone has more than 1 account and has another computer handy so that made me uneasy.

I have nothing more to say about it. My debt is down to 10 sticks 5 of which will be going to Jim as soon as my package of Hoyo that I got from a member of this board arrives tomorrow(he was very sick or they would have been here already)and Rogers sticks are going out soon and has been discussed with him already. I feel this was personal and should not have been brought up but Jim did. For whatever reason he made it sound like I was going to stiff them. I again have never stiffed anyone here and never would.

If people feel that I am not to be trusted and do not want to deal with me I cannot control that. I will say I am sorry to the guys in the poker room that it took this long but still feel you should have contacted me.

My last words are Souldog your are highly respected here but your comment are way out of line for someone who has not heard both sides of the story. SamClemmons I know your outstanding reputation here but come on now that team is bought and paid for and my debts are being paid.

Again Jim I feel you have no class what so ever my friend.

If anyone want to discuss this more with me feel free to PM me I will discuss it with you but I will no longer comment on my personal business on the open forum.

Best Regards
Don

Don:

I don't know you at all but there are a couple things that jump out at me.

In your retort you indicate that you had to go buy cigars to repay your debt with......this means you entered into games without the sticks to pay if you lost.......this is a sign of a habitual gambler.

You also admit to sending $3 - $4 sticks in an attempt to to pay a $8 per stick debt.......this is another sign of a habitual gambler.......maybe you should look in to that as a priority.

I agree with Brian (Infinity) when he says to get your house in order, pay your debts and don't post again until you do.

Well I respect your opinion but you are wrong on your assumptions. I have paid many a stick in these poker games that I just go out and buy. It has nothing to due with a gambling problem it has more to do with me only keeping higher end sticks. And I am not ignoring Brian about posting here I believe I am answering questions being posed and thats all. To say someone is a habitual gambler or has those traits I feel is unfair on your part. I never in the past or present had any problems with gambling.

Best Regards
Don

 

[NullSmurf]

Don, just quit with the point-counterpoint. You're only fanning the flames. Your next (public) post should be in a new thread announcing that you've settled your debts.

 

[CigarStone]

Hi

This is my reply and will be the last time I speak of it. I did have a 34 stick owed count. What was failed to be mentioned is I only owe 10 sticks now. I conversed with you a few days ago Jim and you stated you were unhappy. I made you a offer of five 1998 Hoyo Du Prince sticks that you said you would be happy with. You now go and put my private business out there for all to see. You sir are two-faced and spine-less in my book.

Ok this is for the community since my private business was put out there. I loss my shirt there and had paid out many a stick. I ran into a problem where I did have to lend my brother a rather large sum of money to stop his house from being foreclosed on. This is not unknown as it was in one of my posts around that time.

I messaged the guys involved

Nimrod-6 sticksPaid

dsav101-4 sticksPaid

fourthrail-4 stickspaid

Slcraiders-10 sticks5 sticks which he did not like he failed to mention I also included a VR Unicos and he accepted and said was quite happy with so 5 are owed

Dkprlp-10 sticks5 sticks sent he is not happy has spoke with him and worked it out

I owe a total of 10 sticks not 34 anymore. I have never done anybody wrong here. I have had items sent to me before payment more than once and every one gets paid.

My biggest problem with the whole thing is when the thing with my brother came down I spoke with all involved. I was told to take whatever time was needed a couple of the guys I believe Nimrod and Dsav101 both offered to just wipe it out and I declined.

I was never contacted by any of the guys about this. A week to 10 days ago(not sure exactly)Jonsey contacts me and asks me about the poker debt and tells me I need to be out of the pass. I explained the situation to him and that I will start to get the sticks out to them and he decides to allow me to stay in. The next day I go to my local smoke and spent $148 on 20 cigars and sent them out with a VR Unicos in a couple of packages and did not count them as sticks owed.

I get another PM from Jonsey a few days ago. Again not slcraiders or dkprlp ever contacted me to voice displeasure with the sticks. Jonsey says a couple of the guys were not happy with the sticks I think you need to leave the pass. I told him I understand he said one of the quotes he got was quote he owed me 14 sticks and 12 of them were $4 sticks. Whoever told that to Jonsey told a outright lie. The most sticks I owed any one person was 10.

Now the part where I made a mistake. Yes I took part in some GB and stuff but I always did it in public on the boards. I very easily have done it via private pm and none of the poker guys would have know if I was trying to stiff then. Again my financial situation was not good and I really should have been holding back from these purchases. I get caught up in these high end sticks and spend money I really should not be spending.

I will part with saying that I believe if any of the guys had contacted me instead of Jonsey I believe this all could have been avoided. I still do not believe that the Sancho Panza torps and ERDM I sent are dog rockets. Jim if as you stated you threw them back at me then where are the damn cigars you got a DC#?.

This I was not going to mention but now I will. I stopped playing 1 because of the debt but 2 there is some funny stuff going on also. Not saying anyone is outright cheating. When I was playing you needed 3 players before the game would begin. On more than 1 occasion we had 2 and I forget which one of the guys did it but there was a fake player he was called Big Bogus or something along those lines. That tells me that someone has more than 1 account and has another computer handy so that made me uneasy.

I have nothing more to say about it. My debt is down to 10 sticks 5 of which will be going to Jim as soon as my package of Hoyo that I got from a member of this board arrives tomorrow(he was very sick or they would have been here already)and Rogers sticks are going out soon and has been discussed with him already. I feel this was personal and should not have been brought up but Jim did. For whatever reason he made it sound like I was going to stiff them. I again have never stiffed anyone here and never would.

If people feel that I am not to be trusted and do not want to deal with me I cannot control that. I will say I am sorry to the guys in the poker room that it took this long but still feel you should have contacted me.

My last words are Souldog your are highly respected here but your comment are way out of line for someone who has not heard both sides of the story. SamClemmons I know your outstanding reputation here but come on now that team is bought and paid for and my debts are being paid.

Again Jim I feel you have no class what so ever my friend.

If anyone want to discuss this more with me feel free to PM me I will discuss it with you but I will no longer comment on my personal business on the open forum.

Best Regards
Don

Don:

I don't know you at all but there are a couple things that jump out at me.

In your retort you indicate that you had to go buy cigars to repay your debt with......this means you entered into games without the sticks to pay if you lost.......this is a sign of a habitual gambler.

You also admit to sending $3 - $4 sticks in an attempt to to pay a $8 per stick debt.......this is another sign of a habitual gambler.......maybe you should look in to that as a priority.

I agree with Brian (Infinity) when he says to get your house in order, pay your debts and don't post again until you do.

Well I respect your opinion but you are wrong on your assumptions. I have paid many a stick in these poker games that I just go out and buy. It has nothing to due with a gambling problem it has more to do with me only keeping higher end sticks. And I am not ignoring Brian about posting here I believe I am answering questions being posed and thats all. To say someone is a habitual gambler or has those traits I feel is unfair on your part. I never in the past or present had any problems with gambling.

Best Regards
Don

I did not say you "are" a habitual gambler, but you are correct and I apologize. I was not trying to give you psychological advice and I should not have told you what to do with your own life. I was simply pointing out that the two examples I sighted are those of a habitual gambler.

 

[punk_lawyer]

Don, just quit with the point-counterpoint. You're only fanning the flames. Your next (public) post should be in a new thread announcing that you've settled your debts.

Agreed. Don, you have always been a stand up guy in our contacts. We have traded more than a few messages. I suggest you follow Bruce's advice. Get this done, let everyone know and move on. Best wishes, Brother.

 

[Infinity]

I closed my computer, traveled 400 miles, opened this up to this thread and YOU are still posting. ???

One more time; you messed up in many ways, stop posting and make good your commitment.

Action speaks LOUDER than words, could never be more apt right now.

Brian

 

[grateful1]

I closed my computer, traveled 400 miles, opened this up to this thread and YOU are still posting. ???

One more time; you messed up in many ways, stop posting and make good your commitment.

Action speaks LOUDER than words, could never be more apt right now.

Brian

How was the trip Brian?

 

[Macion Grey]

I have to echo Bruce's sentiment mate. The only thing you should be posting is an announcement stating the completion of your debt repayments. It will then be much easier to apologise from there.

You seem to be trying hard to clean up your reputation, but a point by point verbal fencing match will only serve to highlight your discrepancies to the forum members.



Be cool, square your debts and go from there.

 

[Infinity]

I closed my computer, traveled 400 miles, opened this up to this thread and YOU are still posting. ???

One more time; you messed up in many ways, stop posting and make good your commitment.

Action speaks LOUDER than words, could never be more apt right now.

Brian

How was the trip Brian?

Full circle Gary...8,600 miles and now I'm back home.

Brian

 

[Mike33]

Can someone please provide some cliff notes for this thread ???

 

[stepthirteen]

I closed my computer, traveled 400 miles, opened this up to this thread and YOU are still posting. ???

One more time; you messed up in many ways, stop posting and make good your commitment.

Action speaks LOUDER than words, could never be more apt right now.

Brian

How was the trip Brian?

Full circle Gary...8,600 miles and now I'm back home.

Brian

Back home, huh? This is good to know :whistling:.

Jim

 

[g-smoke]

For some reason, all I hear in my head is "Liquor in the front, poker in the rear...."

 

[pembroke3355]

2 Packages on the move.

Dkprlp DC# 0307 3330 0001 8331 8557

Packge is 1-Padron 80th 1-Ashton VSG Torp 2-Ashton VSG Tres Mystique 1-LFD Double Ligero Chisel.


Dsav101 DC# 0307 3330 0001 8331 8540


Package is 1-Padron 80th 1-Ashton VSG Tres Mystique 1-San Cristobal Supremo 1-LFD Double Ligero Chisel.


Slcraiders package to fly tomorrow. I will post DC# at that time.

Best Regards
Don

 

[rbbrock]

I don't know if these packages were cleared with their recipients prior to shipping, but it looks to me like they contain some sub-$8 cigars again. Granted, not $3 to $4 cigars, but...

Edit to add: the Padron 80th is, of course, a much more than $8 cigar, but that's not really the point, is it?

 

[grateful1]

I don't know if these packages were cleared with their recipients prior to shipping, but it looks to me like they contain some sub-$8 cigars again. Granted, not $3 to $4 cigars, but...

Edit to add: the Padron 80th is, of course, a much more than $8 cigar, but that's not really the point, is it?

Depends on where you are buying. Please be specific.

------------------------------------

That's a BIG problem with the way poker works.

Instead, they may want to say ' Let's play for this or that cigar bundle', or just play for cash!

 

[rbbrock]

I don't know if these packages were cleared with their recipients prior to shipping, but it looks to me like they contain some sub-$8 cigars again. Granted, not $3 to $4 cigars, but...

Edit to add: the Padron 80th is, of course, a much more than $8 cigar, but that's not really the point, is it?

Depends on where you are buying. Please be specific.

------------------------------------

That's a BIG problem with the way poker works.

Instead, they may want to say ' Let's play for this or that cigar bundle', or just play for cash!

Good point, Gary. I know the Tres Mystique is below $8 MSRP, but probably costs more to buy locally. According to MMM's thread, it's $7.50 MSRP. (Edit: I guess that's 2006 MSRP, though.) LFD DL Chisels, according to Cigarcyclopedia, are going for anywhere from $5 to $7 per stick when bought in boxes.

I was under the impression the $8 was to be either MSRP or best going rate, just like a pass, and not whatever the local rate is.