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NFL talk

smellysell said:
Agreed, the failure rate of first round picks is extremely high though, so maybe not as much as we'd think?

Regardless, the Browns are terrible is a well known fact. Better debate would be who is worse between them and the Loins the last 70 years?
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Yeah, I think the Lions have more playoff seasons and playoff wins than the Browns do in the last 3 decades, and I'm pretty sure that the Browns have drafted earlier than the Lions?
 
CigarStone said:
Yeah, I think the Lions have more playoff seasons and playoff wins than the Browns do in the last 3 decades, and I'm pretty sure that the Browns have drafted earlier than the Lions?
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Browns 5-12 in playoffs since 1970

Detroit Lions 1-12 in playoffs since 1970

Regardless, I bleed Honolulu blue
 
smellysell said:
Me too, it's a hard life, but I guess we're gluttons for punishment.
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Anyone with high hopes for the loins is in for nothing but disappointment. I had hopes once the old man passed, but the family is keeping the tradition alive.

The team needs some fresh ownership with deep pockets. Someone who can do what ilitch did with the wings and tried to do with the tigers.

The talk around town is and still continues to be that no one wants to come here to play. There is no “draw” as they say. Cold and snowy, expensive to live in the nicer areas and well then there is the team.

Even if they started to do well I’d be a packers fan still, but I’d be happy for the countless fans who have suffered this long.

The downtown area is coming back but still a lot of pockets of bad areas all over, that still keep some away.

I’m bummed about tigers opening day not happening or at least not like it used to happen. Not sure what this year will bring for that either. I used to go down to where old tiger stadium stood and have lunch and watch the beginning of the game at one of the bars still in that area. Walk around the old park area and remember when I went as a kid. Good times, good memories.
 
{tpc} said:
Anyone with high hopes for the loins is in for nothing but disappointment. I had hopes once the old man passed, but the family is keeping the tradition alive.

The team needs some fresh ownership with deep pockets. Someone who can do what ilitch did with the wings and tried to do with the tigers.

The talk around town is and still continues to be that no one wants to come here to play. There is no “draw” as they say. Cold and snowy, expensive to live in the nicer areas and well then there is the team.

Even if they started to do well I’d be a packers fan still, but I’d be happy for the countless fans who have suffered this long.

The downtown area is coming back but still a lot of pockets of bad areas all over, that still keep some away.

I’m bummed about tigers opening day not happening or at least not like it used to happen. Not sure what this year will bring for that either. I used to go down to where old tiger stadium stood and have lunch and watch the beginning of the game at one of the bars still in that area. Walk around the old park area and remember when I went as a kid. Good times, good memories.
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I watched a lot of games in that stadium too, haven't been back in 30 years though probably. Wouldn't even recognize the place in sure.

I don't think any Loins fans have had high hopes in a loooooooong time! 😂
 
smellysell said:
I watched a lot of games in that stadium too, haven't been back in 30 years though probably. Wouldn't even recognize the place in sure.

I don't think any Loins fans have had high hopes in a loooooooong time! 😂
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Well I’m not sure exactly what has transpired over the last year or so. They took the stadium down, but left the field and some of the remaining metal fencing they had erected around it at the end. Then the Detroit police athletic league took it over and kept the field up to hold games there, some sort of league they had or maybe some little league type games. They even left the flag pole up which I think was from the old stadium, but I could be wrong.

A lot more trendy bars and restaurants in that area now as well, but I’d always seek out the old ones that had been there forever.
 
{tpc} said:
Even if they started to do well I’d be a Packers fan still...
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Well, that's pretty much a given.

What, with The Packers being America's Team and all...












the bait has been laid..
 
{tpc} said:
Anyone with high hopes for the loins is in for nothing but disappointment. I had hopes once the old man passed, but the family is keeping the tradition alive.

The team needs some fresh ownership with deep pockets. Someone who can do what ilitch did with the wings and tried to do with the tigers.

The talk around town is and still continues to be that no one wants to come here to play. There is no “draw” as they say. Cold and snowy, expensive to live in the nicer areas and well then there is the team.

Even if they started to do well I’d be a packers fan still, but I’d be happy for the countless fans who have suffered this long.

The downtown area is coming back but still a lot of pockets of bad areas all over, that still keep some away.

I’m bummed about tigers opening day not happening or at least not like it used to happen. Not sure what this year will bring for that either. I used to go down to where old tiger stadium stood and have lunch and watch the beginning of the game at one of the bars still in that area. Walk around the old park area and remember when I went as a kid. Good times, good memories.
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I'm sure that's true. Why would anyone, coach or player, with a choice, want to go to a team with decades of dysfunction where you are almost guaranteed failure?

Being an engineer, my analytical mind can usually find an explanation for things that seems stranger than fiction. It's almost always MONEY, but I can't understand the ownership of teams like the Jets, the Lions, and the Browns. Usually, billionaires are all about money, it's kinda how they became billionaires. But why invest billions into owning an NFL team and then drive it into the ground?

Granted, they still make millions due to revenue sharing but look at the millions they leave on the table?
  1. No coach with credibility will ever come to you so you are relegated to trying to find a "diamond in the rough".
  2. To get free agents to come to you, you will have to overpay them.
  3. These two things repeatedly lead to starting over and eating contracts.
So what is their end game? A former player once said that owners enjoy being the Romans and controlling the fate of the gladiators (players). That makes more sense than it first seems.
 
CigarStone said:
I'm sure that's true. Why would anyone, coach or player, with a choice, want to go to a team with decades of dysfunction where you are almost guaranteed failure?

Being an engineer, my analytical mind can usually find an explanation for things that seems stranger than fiction. It's almost always MONEY, but I can't understand the ownership of teams like the Jets, the Lions, and the Browns. Usually, billionaires are all about money, it's kinda how they became billionaires. But why invest billions into owning an NFL team and then drive it into the ground?

Granted, they still make millions due to revenue sharing but look at the millions they leave on the table?
  1. No coach with credibility will ever come to you so you are relegated to trying to find a "diamond in the rough".
  2. To get free agents to come to you, you will have to overpay them.
  3. These two things repeatedly lead to starting over and eating contracts.
So what is their end game? A former player once said that owners enjoy being the Romans and controlling the fate of the gladiators (players). That makes more sense than it first seems.
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It's also about getting 1st round picks... look at what a single good qb pick can do to a team. If you can keep even 2 mediocre receivers healthy after mid-season, and a solid kicker, you can clinch your division and at least go into post season with a shot.

I mean, yeah.. Packer fan.. but between the Bears and loins.. almost a guarantee 4 going decades now... I wanna see some action and competition in those 12+ hours. I couldn't imagine being a Detroit fan and having to watch Stafford all season.

I'm curious to see the game change and rules over the next few years. Did anyone watch this past weeks Real Sports w B. Gumble?
 
Cigar Dan said:
It's also about getting 1st round picks... look at what a single good qb pick can do to a team. If you can keep even 2 mediocre receivers healthy after mid-season, and a solid kicker, you can clinch your division and at least go into post season with a shot.

I mean, yeah.. Packer fan.. but between the Bears and loins.. almost a guarantee 4 going decades now... I wanna see some action and competition in those 12+ hours. I couldn't imagine being a Detroit fan and having to watch Stafford all season.

I'm curious to see the game change and rules over the next few years. Did anyone watch this past weeks Real Sports w B. Gumble?
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That's absolutely not true. Patrick Mahomes, playing for a team with bad ownership, management, and coaching would be a bust simply because they would not know how to take advantage of his greatness. That's what we were talking about before with teams like the Lions, Browns, and Jets.

The first year out of the cluster fuck in Detroit and Matt Stafford wins the Super Bowl.
 
CigarStone said:
That's absolutely not true. Patrick Mahomes, playing for a team with bad ownership, management, and coaching would be a bust simply because they would not know how to take advantage of his greatness. That's what we were talking about before with teams like the Lions, Browns, and Jets.

The first year out of the cluster fuck in Detroit and Matt Stafford wins the Super Bowl.
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I agree but sometimes the stars just align, which imo is what happened in Staffords case. It wasn’t Matt’s greatness that won it. It was his ineptitude, or rather the lack there of, that won it. That and kupp. The guy was uncoverable most of the year.

That last play, in tampa bay, where the defense forgot what the hell they were doing, got them there. That play doesn’t happen and we might all be talking about tb12 again.
 
{tpc} said:
I agree but sometimes the stars just align, which imo is what happened in Staffords case. It wasn’t Matt’s greatness that won it. It was his ineptitude, or rather the lack there of, that won it. That and kupp. The guy was uncoverable most of the year.

That last play, in tampa bay, where the defense forgot what the hell they were doing, got them there. That play doesn’t happen and we might all be talking about tb12 again.
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I agree, it's too soon to put Stafford in the HOF but I think the point is that it doesn't really matter who the QB is when the organization is a mess.

I also think it is hard for Lion fans to see Stafford fairly because that would mean that they have to see the Lions for what they are ..... and that's hard for any fan to do with "their team"
 
{tpc} said:
Anyone with high hopes for the loins is in for nothing but disappointment. I had hopes once the old man passed, but the family is keeping the tradition alive.

The team needs some fresh ownership with deep pockets. Someone who can do what ilitch did with the wings and tried to do with the tigers.

The talk around town is and still continues to be that no one wants to come here to play. There is no “draw” as they say. Cold and snowy, expensive to live in the nicer areas and well then there is the team.

Even if they started to do well I’d be a packers fan still, but I’d be happy for the countless fans who have suffered this long.

The downtown area is coming back but still a lot of pockets of bad areas all over, that still keep some away.

I’m bummed about tigers opening day not happening or at least not like it used to happen. Not sure what this year will bring for that either. I used to go down to where old tiger stadium stood and have lunch and watch the beginning of the game at one of the bars still in that area. Walk around the old park area and remember when I went as a kid. Good times, good memories.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately deep pockets isn't a cure all, Cowboys and Jets are prime examples. More money than than football smarts. Look at the Patriots, the owner lets Belichick be the GM and coach and it works. The successful franchises let the football people run the team, they reap the financial benefits.
 
CigarStone said:
That's one thing I still appreciate about the Steelers. They don't reach!

The word is that Houston wants three number ones for Deshaun Watson. There isn't a single player in the NFL that is worth three number ones.

Plus, there is no assurance that he can still play at an elite level.
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If Stafford was worth 2, Watson is definitely worth 3, off the field stuff not withstanding. With the bust rate of first round picks, I'd gladly take the proven commodity. Why wouldn't he be able to still play at an elite level, I think he's 27?
 
smellysell said:
If Stafford was worth 2, Watson is definitely worth 3, off the field stuff not withstanding. With the bust rate of first round picks, I'd gladly take the proven commodity. Why wouldn't he be able to still play at an elite level, I think he's 27?
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You are just a Stafford hater.

It's been a while since Watson played, and he has had a lot of things in his head that aren't football.
 
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