Pick Vitasea's Cohiba DC EL 2003 contest

[preembargo]

________________________________________
Honorable Court of Public Opinion
Common Reasoning Presiding
________________________________________


Closing arguments in the case of
The Well Meaning Public vs. The Well Meaning Vitasea

The facts and evidence presented by The Well Meaning Public are as such:


1. The cigar reviewed by Moki was constructed using a combination of long and short fillers.

2. The length and band size of the cigar reviewed by Moki was inconsistent with its vitola.

3. Vitasea has made available to the cigar smoking public, Limited Edition cigars that have never been produced, specifically Cohiba Pyramide LE 2005, Cohiba Sublime EL 2005, and Partagas Serie P #2 LE 2005.

4. By Vitasea’s admission, these cigars were obtained by circumventing legitimate sources making these cigars counterfeit by definition.


The facts and evidence presented by The Well Meaning Vitasea are as such:


1. By Vitasea’s admission, these cigars were obtained by circumventing legitimate sources making these cigars counterfeit by definition.

2. The Limited Edition cigars that have never been produced, specifically Cohiba Pyramide LE 2005, Cohiba Sublime EL 2005, and Partagas Serie P #2 LE 2005 may have been a marketing test or promotion of some kind.

________________________________________
Doug,

You sent cigars to Moki and certain others because you felt that their favorable reviews would bode well towards your reputation. This might be a good move for a resaler who trusts their source. Another good move would be to accept those unfavorable reviews along with the favorable and to heed the advice of those who mean only to help you while protecting those members of this board who have little or no experience in this area (myself included).

You asked “What evidence”? It can’t be spelled out more clearly. However, as it’s been pointed out to me, this is all backwards. We shouldn't have to prove that your cigars are counterfeit.

As I’ve said, the authenticity of your cigars is secondary to the authenticity of your character. Let me echo Mr. Jingles, I hope your character is such that you can accept the facts and become a member of this community. It’s all up to you. If you decide not to, then thank you for the cigars and I pray for your success and safety in your efforts to help the Cuban people.
________________________________________

 

[vitasea]

i think that that was a very nice ststement

aginst my better judgement i will ask a second opinion (or 25)other then "god"
MOKI's review, who i respect, and will send 25 dc cohiba e l 2003 for other opinions (no two finger cadies this time i'm out). if you have the balls to give an honest review then please pm me with your address and i will send you one. i do not have or sent conterfiet cigars and never will. i think there as been a lot of misinformation about me and i will still fight to protect me?????

i know the more you try to defend your self the more **** you get????

 

[UTKhodgy]

I have a feeling it's going to be hard to find someone who has...
a) non-"God" status to you
that also
b) has the knowledge and experience to give an honest review of an alleged Cuban cigar.

In order to receive fair judgment your "Cuban" cigar has to be compared to other cuban cigars, which would therefore require someone with experience in that field. Most people around here who have respectable experience in ISOMs also happen to be some of the members most looked up to, or glorified by the other posters here.

So, I hope you see my logic in asking for a second opinion, which is it's going to be hard to find another fair review that didn't come from the batch you sent out the first time.

I say keep your "ELs" to yourself, smoke them yourself, enjoy them yourself, and carry on.

 

[moki]

i think that that was a very nice ststement

aginst my better judgement i will ask a second opinion (or 25)other then "god"
MOKI's review, who i respect, and will send 25 dc cohiba e l 2003 for other opinions (no two finger cadies this time i'm out). if you have the balls to give an honest review then please pm me with your address and i will send you one. i do not have or sent conterfiet cigars and never will. i think there as been a lot of misinformation about me and i will still fight to protect me?????

i know the more you try to defend your self the more **** you get????

[snapback]210330[/snapback]​

Okay, correct the misinformation about you, and tell everyone:

1) Where you obtain your cigars

2) What certifications you have from the factories that these are genuine cigars

3) Why anyone should trust your judgement regarding these cigars when the last batch you insisted were real ended up being fake

4) Why anyone should obtain cigars from you, as opposed to obtaining them through trusted, legitimate channels

5) Why do you have cigars that are mis-branded, have the wrong "EL" year on them, have "EL" bands on them when they shouldn't, and are not of the correct size for the vitola?

Far from clearing up any misinformation, you've really shed no light on any of this... sending out yet more cigars is not going to do anything to address these questions.

I'd also like to point out that I didn't ask for any of this; you sent these cigars to me unsolicited after I outed your previous cigars as being fakes. You included a price list; you kept PMing me asking me to smoke them.

So I did.

 

[fetterjohn]

Again...I'm game. I want to see what you produce this time, Vitasea. This will be number 2 for me and number 3 for this board. Your legitimacy are on the line one more time.

-Fetter

 

[moki]

i do not have or sent conterfiet cigars and never will.

[snapback]210330[/snapback]​

You are retracting this statement, then?

 

[MilesMingusMonk]

I find it rather pathetic that there are still CPer's who continue to feed off Vitasea's lure of a free stick.

Stop helping this gray market counterfeiter gain some bits of credibility.

 

[fetterjohn]

i do not have or sent conterfiet cigars and never will.

[snapback]210330[/snapback]​

You are retracting this statement, then?

[snapback]210338[/snapback]​

I just want to see what he hands out...I don't need free sticks, MMM, just curiosity! Like a cat. It just may kill me. :whistling:

But it's like a game...I want to see when he actually will send out legit stuff, or if he really believes his stuff is real.

-Fetter

 

[MilesMingusMonk]

I just want to see what he hands out...I don't need free sticks, MMM, just curiosity! Like a cat. It just may kill me. :whistling:

But it's like a game...I want to see when he actually will send out legit stuff, or if he really believes his stuff is real.

-Fetter

[snapback]210340[/snapback]​

........flashbacks of PuroBrat dance in my head.

 

[IgwanaRob]

i think that that was a very nice ststement

aginst my better judgement i will ask a second opinion (or 25)other then "god"
MOKI's review, who i respect, and will send 25 dc cohiba e l 2003 for other opinions (no two finger cadies this time i'm out). if you have the balls to give an honest review then please pm me with your address and i will send you one. i do not have or sent conterfiet cigars and never will. i think there as been a lot of misinformation about me and i will still fight to protect me?????

i know the more you try to defend your self the more **** you get????

[snapback]210330[/snapback]​

I don't understand why you feel you need to buy people's friendship - unless there's truly is an ulterior motive at play. People here are more than willing to accept you into the community, but if you keep pushing questionable stuff, no matter what your intentions may be, you risk loosing any hope of maintaining any level of respect from anyone, nor will you get any positive reactions from most aside from the newbies who are ignorant to the history of your actions (which will no doubt bring out the more aggressively protective nature of the CP 'gods').

 

[cvmfour]

I just want to see what he hands out...I don't need free sticks, MMM, just curiosity!  Like a cat. It just may kill me. :whistling:

But it's like a game...I want to see when he actually will send out legit stuff, or if he really believes his stuff is real.

-Fetter

[snapback]210340[/snapback]​

........flashbacks of PuroBrat dance in my head.

[snapback]210341[/snapback]​

OMG! Soooo true! :laugh:



Vitsea: Keep your cigars because if you can't produce real cuban cigars in 2 tries, then why have another? This is just pathetic.

 

[mrjinglesusa]

CP Members:

I urge all of you to NOT take Vitasea up on his newest offer of free cigars. You are only propogating this further. Read this thread and you will see the "evidence" has been laid out plain as day - he is sending out FAKE cigars. Come on, by his own admission, he believes the 2005 Sublime EL and 2005 PSP2 EL he has are real! They DO NOT EXIST, except in the humidors of people who believe the cigars they get out the back door of a factory in Cuba are real. As someone else said, they are probably out of the CORRECT year EL bands for the Sublime and simply stuck a 2005 band on them and told VItasea they were for "marketing research". When have they EVER released the same cigar as an EL the following year? NEVER.

Vitasea:

You are really, really pig-headed. I know it must be hard to take the fact that your "source" is screwing you over but trying to push these cigars on us is just pathetic. What do you hope to prove? Moki already compared your cigar to a real one. Result: FAKE. Your credibility is completely shot now. Even if you actually send out REAL cigars from another source, who's to say that the old bait-and-switch may not be played in the future?

I swear, it's like talking to a brick wall...

 

[moki]

i think tI don't understand why you feel you need to buy people's friendship - unless there's truly is an ulterior motive at play.

[snapback]210348[/snapback]​

He included a sales brochure and price list with my cigars; I presume he did for others as well. The vendor represented does not have a good reputation at all.

Which makes me wonder. Vitasea, are you getting your cigars from the vendor in question (whom you'll notice I have not mentioned by name), or are you in fact obtaining them by sailing to Cuba and procuring them directly from the factories there, as you've stated publicly?

Either way is equally bad considering the reputation of the vendor in question, but I'm just curious which it is.

 

[moki]

When have they EVER released the same cigar as an EL the following year? NEVER.

[snapback]210354[/snapback]​

This doesn't imply anything regarding Vitasea's cigars, but there have been cases of Cohiba Piradmie ELs (which are 2001 ELs released in 2002) that had 2003 bands on them. From Mitch @ cgarsltd:

The 2003 production has the new Cohiba bands, 2003 black Limitada bands and
the date on the bottom will be AUG, SEP, OCT or NOV 03. They ran production
with bands that they have, which were the new Cohiba bands.

I almost dread posting this, because Vitasea and others will shout "See!!!!" -- but correct information needs to be put out there. Knowing how screwed up Habanos SA can be at times doesn't change my opinion of Vitasea's cigars at all.

 

[mrjinglesusa]

When have they EVER released the same cigar as an EL the following year?  NEVER.

[snapback]210354[/snapback]​

This doesn't imply anything regarding Vitasea's cigars, but there have been cases of Cohiba Piradmie ELs (which are 2001 ELs released in 2002) that had 2003 bands on them. From Mitch @ cgarsltd:

The 2003 production has the new Cohiba bands, 2003 black Limitada bands and
the date on the bottom will be AUG, SEP, OCT or NOV 03. They ran production
with bands that they have, which were the new Cohiba bands.

I almost dread posting this, because Vitasea and others will shout "See!!!!" -- but correct information needs to be put out there. Knowing how screwed up Habanos SA can be at times doesn't change my opinion of Vitasea's cigars at all.

[snapback]210358[/snapback]​

Thanks for the info Andrew - I didn't know that. However, that seems to be different than say, for instance, a 2004 Cohiba Sublime EL being released again in 2005 as a 2005 Cohiba Sublime EL. I think they are completely different situations. i.e. The EXACT same cigar being released in two consecutive years as an EL. Did the original 2001 Piramide ELs that were released in 2002 have 2001 or 2002 limitada bands? I guess I see your point - if demand is high enough they may want to release more Sublimes as limitadas but may not have 2004 bands left, hence they would stick 2005 bands on them.

 

[vewyphishy]

<edited>

 

[moki]

Thanks for the info Andrew - I didn't know that.  However, that seems to be different than say, for instance, a 2004 Cohiba Sublime EL being released again in 2005 as a 2005 Cohiba Sublime EL.  I think they are completely different situations.  i.e.  The EXACT same cigar being released in two consecutive years as an EL.  Did the original 2001 Piramide ELs that were released in 2002 have 2001 or 2002 limitada bands?  I guess I see your point - if demand is high enough they may want to release more Sublimes as limitadas but may not have 2004 bands left, hence they would stick 2005 bands on them.

[snapback]210366[/snapback]​

Some had 2001 EL bands on them -- the end of the production cycle had 2003 EL bands on them. Sadly, this just makes it harder to pick out the fakes, but aberrations like this do happen. There are also a LOT of fakes with 2003 EL bands on them too...

Let me see if I can find the thread.... found it: http://forums.cigarweekly.com/viewtopic.ph...&highlight=2003 -- some good info on the second page.

By happy coincidence, my box of Cohiba DC ELs arrived today!

 

[SamClemmons]

I'd prolly do it for a two finger case...

NA

 

[junkman_56]

He included a sales brochure and price list with my cigars; I presume he did for others as well. The vendor represented does not have a good reputation at all.

Moki, would it be possible to post the name of this vendor?
No one here wants to purchase fake cigars or do business with anyone willing to sell fake cigars.

 

[cigarsarge]

I'd prolly do it for a two finger case...

NA

[snapback]210381[/snapback]​

I'll send ya mine.