Send Lawyers, Guns and Money Pass - below 50 RG only- Completed.

[Jonesy]

For your reference Greg.

I am not going to make a rule clarification, I am going to make a rule change. All puts/takes of whatever the value are preapproved for the remainder of this pass. Simply post your puts/takes to the thread. I will request that others passers do not disapprove or make critical comments of any passers puts/takes. I want there to be no further negativity in the pass.
 
 

This goes against EVERYTHING CP is about.

 

[personal User]

In all honesty Brian, It appears to me that you have taken a personal vendetta against me and wish to destroy the pass.
 
If you are sincere in your interests to better this situation, please do not post to this thread again.
 
I am attempting to have a serious discussion that I and others may learn from but the continued repeated negativity and insults get in the way.

 

[jfields]

.... I can't figure out if you're going the condescending passive aggressive route, or if you really don't have a firm grip on the written and unwritten time honored CP pass rules. 
 
I did a good bit of reading and saw everything from a pass where the passer started off with bottles of whiskey to a herf pass where all puts/takes were preapproved. It also appears that all puts and takes are preapproved in Jonesys pass.
 
So, and I don't mean to be condescending but how on earth am I supposed to comply with unwritten rules?
 
There are always going to be various interpretations of unwritten rules. If I read every word of five years of passes my interpretation and what I gleaned from the passes would be different from other people reading the same data,
 
While my delivery of my thoughts has not been as good as I would like and it appears that at times come across as condescending, I assure you of  my sincerety.
 
I sincerely fail to see why there would be such discussions in this thread yet
 

 
 



There must be some confusion/misinterpretation on your end, or a mistake in a post Brian made somewhere. I can tell you with 100% certainty that P/T's have not been already preapproved in Brian's pass.

 

I might have interpreted that wrong but it looks like that is what is said
 
Under Pass Arrives
 
 
"Publicly post your puts & takes, you don't have to wait on approval, your P/T's are pre-approved because every one of you guys are seasoned passers. The only thing I ask is you don't make large over puts that price out the guys at the end. "
 

 
 
If that is fine for one pass why is it not fine for another?
 
Maybe I am misinterpreting but the english seems plain to me.


You are misinterpreting I believe. That, and I have already cleared up the whole "Pre-approved" misconception thing you seem to have, as well as have others previously. I'm not completely sure why you are still hung up on it.
 
 
Best thing I can offer is that it has been way too long since we have had any passes flying for the newer members to watch and learn. Because there are several unwritten rules that the players in this thread would not be savvy to. In hindsight, letting a member with six or seven months under his or her belt host a pass is/was not a good idea. At least not without two or more seasoned members participating, guiding, and posting out in the open for all membership to see. Even the seasoned guys make bad calls, and it should be up to all to collectively talk about it as adults to come up with a solution that works for everyone.
 
 
 
Edit to take out mistake.

 

[Jonesy]

In all honesty Brian, It appears to me that you have taken a personal vendetta against me and wish to destroy the pass.
 
If you are sincere in your interests to better this situation, please do not post to this thread again.
 
I am attempting to have a serious discussion that I and others may learn from but the continued repeated negativity and insults get in the way.

What in the above post makes you think that? Greg asked about the rules, so I quoted it for him to see. There are no repeated negativity and insults.
 
Let me leave you with one more example of what you're doing so maybe you can understand it. Say you just moved into the neighborhood 7 months ago. You got to know some of the people in the area. After these 7 months, you feel comfortable enough to walk into a neighbors house, change the channel of the program he was watching, told his daughter her bedtime had been changed from 9 pm to 8 pm, and you told his wife she could spend however much she wanted at the jewelry store the next time she went.
 
This is you here at CP with your pass

 

[Rod]

Hello Personal User,
 
When trading/passing cigars, the puts/takes need to be very relative.  If someone takes a $15 cigar, they need to put back at least a $15 cigar.  It's important all members are treated fairly.  Brian and John are offering advice not because they are trying to pick a fight, rather are looking out for the best interest of the membership.  Like Brian said, there are a lot of new members in this pass.
 
You may have noticed there aren't a lot of rules at CP.  I prefer to let the community guide itself, rather than creating a ton of rules.  When you create rules on top of rules, you start getting into having to define rules even deeper.  There are some pass rules that are not to change - Brian pointed those out.  There are also some unwritten rules, which some consider to be common sense.  Again, I prefer to keep a high level set of rules, opposed to over-defining. 
 
When hosting a pass, you can specify your own rules, assuming they do not have a negative impact on other members.  Allowing any type of puts for takes is not fair to the rest of the pass participants. 
 
 
If you have any questions, please do respond back.  The long time members are trying to help, not hinder your pass. 
 
Thank you,
Rod

 

[personal User]

How much leeway can I give my passers on puts/takes within a dollar value range? What is acceptable there?
 
My wish is to avoid conflict on dollar values of puts/takes within as loose an interpretation as possible.
 
While I do realize that people aren't perfect and mistakes happen, I think that the players wish to be a good passer will overcome in the end any serious issues and wish for that to be as loose a restriction as possible.
 
And while it is obvious that some are trying to help and help me understand, when a poster tells me I ought to shut down the pass and that am a sanctimonious prick it is difficult for me to believe in his sincerity and wish for me and the pass to succeed and taints his advice (for me anyhow)

 

[jfields]

How much leeway can I give my passers on puts/takes within a dollar value range? What is acceptable there?
 
My wish is to avoid conflict on dollar values of puts/takes within as loose an interpretation as possible.
 
While I do realize that people aren't perfect and mistakes happen, I think that the players wish to be a good passer will overcome in the end any serious issues and wish for that to be as loose a restriction as possible.
 
And while it is obvious that some are trying to help and help me understand, when a poster tells me I ought to shut down the pass and that am a sanctimonious prick it is difficult for me to believe in his sincerity and wish for me and the pass to succeed and taints his advice (for me anyhow)

 
You raise a valid point. No matter how frustrated we get, we shouldn't resort to name calling (Unless the obvious troll passing through, stirring up hate and discontent). Sorry Brian, I love you like a brother, but he has a valid point.
 
 
That being said, I would suggest you contact someone in your pass like Gary/Ironpeddler and really listen to what he has to say, and has been trying to tell you. Might even do you a lot of good to ask for his number and a good time to call. The typed word conveys no emotion and sometimes a lot is lost in that. It's done me a world of good to speak to members personally in several instances. Just know that someone like him will have you, your pass, and the boards best interest at heart while guiding you. That, and all of the discussion taking place should not be seen as a way of crimping your style and disruption/negativity, but as a way for you and others to learn.

 

[Jonesy]

How much leeway can I give my passers on puts/takes within a dollar value range? What is acceptable there?
 
My wish is to avoid conflict on dollar values of puts/takes within as loose an interpretation as possible.
 
While I do realize that people aren't perfect and mistakes happen, I think that the players wish to be a good passer will overcome in the end any serious issues and wish for that to be as loose a restriction as possible.
 
And while it is obvious that some are trying to help and help me understand, when a poster tells me I ought to shut down the pass and that am a sanctimonious prick it is difficult for me to believe in his sincerity and wish for me and the pass to succeed and taints his advice (for me anyhow)

Never once did I call you a sanctimonious prick. I do want to see your pass suceed and I am saying that in the utmost and total honesty. You just have to be open to listening to the experienced guys around here that give you good advice and you dismiss it.
 
I wouldn't put a dollar range on it, but maybe a %. Say, anything $10 and under, you can have a 5% variance. $10-$20, you can have a 7.5% variance, and $20 and up, a 10% variance. This way you have a structure everyone can follow. Granted though, if you can keep the trades as close as possible, that's the optimal way to go.

 

[CMontoya79]

Ok, weather you like it or not perconal user, there are unwritten rules here. A big one is heed the advice of the older more established members. This is a-1, priority, golden unwritten rule. In my opinion People have been banned for asshatery abound. None of that is needed. I think you are trying to learn and Jonesy is trying to help. Please keep an open mind. Swallow your pride, and let's move this forward in a positive manner. There is 0 reason why this pass can not continue and still be a great learning experience for all. If you read what has gone on here, you would see that mistakes are made, Jonesy has apologized TWICE. please accept this and let's move this along. Please stop making this a pissing contest. It would make sense to not switch up the rules you laid since there ARE a few 1st timers. Again personal user, weather you like it or not the FOG's (established/veteran) members rule here and that's just the way it is.

 

[personal User]

 

 


.  Yours for example has more than a couple first timers.  

 

Jonesy, if I could find a ignore function here I would block your posts from my seeing them.
 
I am not going to consider anything further you say for discussion.
 
I will be glad to entertain serious discussion from other participants.
 

I have given you nothing but solid advice about your pass since I apologized to you for calling you a condescending prick (which I now regret doing because I obviously was spot on).
 
This really hurts my feelings because I'm 17 miles from the I-85 EXIT at my house to SC and I would have loved to come down there and smoked a cigar with you!

btw, if you want an ignore button for me, then I request a "disappear" button for you.

Damn fellas, we're all adults here, last time I checked. 

Yea, but even some of the oldest ones can't act like one....
 


Sorry, the word was condescending not sanctimonious and this was less than two hours ago.

 

[jfields]

It was "condescending prick" ....... You say potato, I say potato!  :sign: 

 

[Jonesy]

 

How much leeway can I give my passers on puts/takes within a dollar value range? What is acceptable there?
 
My wish is to avoid conflict on dollar values of puts/takes within as loose an interpretation as possible.
 
While I do realize that people aren't perfect and mistakes happen, I think that the players wish to be a good passer will overcome in the end any serious issues and wish for that to be as loose a restriction as possible.
 
And while it is obvious that some are trying to help and help me understand, when a poster tells me I ought to shut down the pass and that am a sanctimonious prick it is difficult for me to believe in his sincerity and wish for me and the pass to succeed and taints his advice (for me anyhow)

Never once did I call you a sanctimonious prick. I do want to see your pass suceed and I am saying that in the utmost and total honesty. You just have to be open to listening to the experienced guys around here that give you good advice and you dismiss it.
 
I wouldn't put a dollar range on it, but maybe a %. Say, anything $10 and under, you can have a 5% variance. $10-$20, you can have a 7.5% variance, and $20 and up, a 10% variance. This way you have a structure everyone can follow. Granted though, if you can keep the trades as close as possible, that's the optimal way to go.
 

And I apologize for calling you a condescending prick multiple time and it won't happen again. Now, with that being said, you may want to consider the advice that I just gave you that is quoted here. It will actually make things a lot smoother. At this point all the BS is behind me and I really am trying to help you. I've run and participated in close to 20 passes, so I kinda know what I'm talking about.  :thumbs:

 

[personal User]

having said that, I will gladly see an end to the pissing contest.
 
It's not why I came here - And it reminds me of talking with my ex-wife
 
I'll try to come up with a range, and clarify and move forward to a positive pass.
 
At this point, I have work that must come first and must take care of, Auditor arrives this afternoon and begins tomorrow.
 
We've got several days to the next hand off and somehow I think the puts/takes are going to have been closely looked at :thumbs:
 
Regards
 
Ken
 
ETA
 
As regards to range, I will note that I said early on in the pass that prices would be interpreted loosely.

 

[CMontoya79]

Yay.   :thumbs:

 

[grateful1]

It was "condescending prick" ....... You say potato, I say potato!  :sign: 

 
 
http://vimeo.com/85527178

 

[personal User]

Oh yeah, Jonesy I have a request.
 
Please help me figure out how to get more actual cigar info other than cost/pricing into the remaining part of the pass.
 
Not as a rule change but a suggested guide for the players.
 
I really was sincere when I said I think there is far too much focus on costs and not enough on the actual smokes.

 

[jfields]

Thank God!  :laugh:

 

[Jonesy]

Oh yeah, Jonesy I have a request.
 
Please help me figure out how to get more actual cigar info other than cost/pricing into the remaining part of the pass.
 
Not as a rule change but a suggested guide for the players.
 
I really was sincere when I said I think there is far too much focus on costs and not enough on the actual smokes.

I understand what you're talking about when you say there is far too much focus on cost, but that's what you deal with in a pass. Everything revolves around the cost. To get more info on the cigars, do a little google research. Would you know the value of a Ratzilla if it went into the pass, or a Drac? These are limited production cigars that will have rarity attached to them, so you have to decide how much. When you see the P/T's come up, research them. Find out how many boxes were made, how many cigars were produced, was it specific to a certain shop. These are all things that drive the price of a cigar up....it's limited availability. 
 
Make the guys research their P/T's and put pricing out there when they post them. Then you go to a member that know what's going on and say "hey, what do you think about what John just did? Do you think that will work?". There are more than a few of us that would be glad to help.

Thank God!  :laugh:

3 Klonopin did the trick for me!

 

[Brickhouse]

 
I understand what you're talking about when you say there is far too much focus on cost, but that's what you deal with in a pass. Everything revolves around the cost. To get more info on the cigars, do a little google research. Would you know the value of a Ratzilla if it went into the pass, or a Drac? These are limited production cigars that will have rarity attached to them, so you have to decide how much. When you see the P/T's come up, research them. Find out how many boxes were made, how many cigars were produced, was it specific to a certain shop. These are all things that drive the price of a cigar up....it's limited availability. 
 
Make the guys research their P/T's and put pricing out there when they post them. Then you go to a member that know what's going on and say "hey, what do you think about what John just did? Do you think that will work?". There are more than a few of us that would be glad to help.

 
Very sound advice......very.

 

[modo22]

 
 
It's not why I came here - And it reminds me of talking with my ex-wife

Being rational and logical with those beasts NEVER work.  I hope I never feel that feeling again.  There is something special with those "ex" creatures.