Well I was wrong.

[Rod]

Well said, Anthony.

This whole thing has become quite childish, much like a fight in grammar school where everyone has to come look and throw in their two cents in. If you are not involved in this, then stay out of it.

Bill - Wilkey apologized, either accept it or cut ties with him and move on. If anyone else is owed anything by Wilkey, then speak up. If they're too afraid to speak up, then obviously they don't feel it's that important and is now a dead issue.

The name calling and child-like behavior is complete bullshit. If you can't settle disputes like adults, then you don't belong here. That goes for everyone.

Wilkey has extended his hand in trying to resolve this situation; not sure what else is expected of him. Bill - what will it be?

 

[SamClemmons]

neener neener neener.

NA

 

[Seanholio]

Good stuff all around. Now all we need is for Sean to take the picture Glad this is working out.

Best,

Joe

Which Sean?

 

[SamClemmons]

Moki, it wan't up to me to accept his apology. I'm quite sure it wasn't pointed at me. I simply thought it lacked sincerity and said so.

I understand. I think he needs to make the situation right by Bill and anyone else that he has outstanding trades with -- this goes without saying. I don't think he needs to throw himself on his sword for forgetting to send out a few cigars to people... and I agree he could have handled the situation more adroitly.

Maybe he is being insincere in his apology; maybe he doesn't like Bill or has his panties all in a bunch over the whole incident. So what? That makes it all the more difficult to apologize and completely supplicate before people here. Interrogating an apology is a sure way to get it rescinded. We all live by social niceties that may not be 100% genuine, but are still meaningful for at least being offered.

I'm not excusing him not sending cigars to Bill and whomever else is on the list, and I understand that it's not the size of the exchange, but rather fulfilling it properly.

But still... I'm distraught by how much of a mountain this molehill is being made into... by everyone involved.

Still waiting on the 4 other "phantom" members who have been wronged by Wilkey to show up.

Bill is not lying about these other people existing; it just isn't something he would do. Insinuating otherwise is just going to cause this to snowball for no good reason.

I get it Andrew, I do. But the mountain is wilkey's creation. He could have said, "You know what, you're right. I'll snag your addy and get this taken care of. I'm sorry for the inconvenience", without all that other stuff. A lot of guys like wilkey and he'll be missed by them I'm sure but he was a little more candid with me in private a while back than I can appreciate. I'm sure there are things I care less about but I just can't think of one right now.

The cigar kicked my ass by the way. Hope your new nubbin is doing well.

NA

 

[jfields]

Why wait to bring it up a year later and in a thread he started? If you were that concerned about it and weren't getting anywhere in private communication, shouldn't you have contacted Rod via PM or started a thread calling him out?

Would the two other members you mentioned care to weigh in here as well?

I brought my situation up with him in this thread because it's the EXACT same situation therefore it's relevant. This is not the first time I posted about this publicly, it's the second. The first time was around June or July of '08. I'm pretty sure wilkey saw it and chose to ignore it. I was then contacted via email by a member here who said:

noticed you posted something about Wilkey not sending his end for
some boxes. Thought you may be interested to know that I had a fall
out with him on the same issue.

He went on to say this as well:

The irony is that you and I are not the only folks he reneged on. Two
of the guys did not confront him because they are new to CP and didn't
want to cause a hassle.

I responded by asking this person if he would please tell me the names of the individuals he referenced and he declined but did say this:

There are actually 3 guys I know of, excluding you and myself, that
Wilkey just conveniently forgot about. ...I'd rather not mention names, it's not important

I will not disclose the name of the person who sent me this email, you're just going to have to take my word for it.

So never mind me and two others, this email proves wilkey has done this at least FIVE TIMES.

There is nothing to PM Rod about, you should know better than that. Rod has better things to do than tell wilkey that he's wrong.

So now Wilkey has done this FIVE TIMES? I guess I'm just curious as why this is the first I, and apparently most of the board, is hearing about this. If he has been such a bad trader, then why wasn't it made public or Rod contacted to question him? I do know if there is someone on CP who has screwed other board members FIVE TIMES over, then Rod should absolutely be contacted about it as that person should be banned. Do you not agree? The reason why these things should be made public or brought to Rod's attention is the protection of the community, is it not? Because you say this has happend five times, what is to stop it from happening again if it is true?

I never asked you to disclose the names of others, I asked if they wanted to come forward. My question still remains, why wait a year to post about this in a thread he started instead of calling him out in a new thread like should have been done or contact Rod, one or the other or both?

I missed this yesterday. Otherwise, I would have posted as well, backing Bill's claim that there seems to be a trend from Wilkey when it comes to "Hey, send me this, and I'll send you some sticks for your trouble" failures.
I can tell you without even speaking to Bill that the PM's quoted above are real, and the person who contacted him was Infinity. Brian and I were sitting on the beach having a conversation one day when he brought up the subject of Wilkey and an agreement. Same story.......Send me "A", and I'll send you "B". in return. The thing is, he would have gladly sent anything for nothing, but as he put it, "If you tell me you're going to do something, then you better do it. People always let me down, and it pisses me off." I know that Brian tried unsuccessfully to work it out with Wilkey via PM's. In the end, Brian told me he had to tell Wilkey to "Go fuck himself, the guy just can't stand to be questioned on anything."

Now, I only did hear one side of the story as far as the PM's go. I would never have one ounce of doubt as far as the story Brian told me about the "agreement" that was made with him.
The only reason I bring this up is because I know Brian would want me to, and if he were still with us he'd have been right in there with Bill, George, and others calling BULLSHIT.
Go back through Brian's post, do some searching. Many times he tried to bait Wilkey, cryptically calling him out, hoping to get a response from him. He always chose to ignore these post, and Brian never got his chance. Rod doesn't need to know about every little bad thing that happens here. These things have a way of working themselves out and eventually coming to light. What does it matter if it's two weeks, or one year. Screw around, and you'll eventually get caught.

I'm one of the new guys who did not want to "make waves". I was still fairly new here and had unwittingly passed some fakes that came to Wilkeys attention. He verified my cigars and sources as fake Cuban Cigars. I had several thousand dollars of counterfeit boxes in my possession that I wished to send off to him to make absolutely sure were counterfeit. He ended up approaching me with...." I am very interested in keeping several of the boxes you have sent my way. I would use these to dissect and write up for my expose, Counterfeit Cuban Cigars, Exposed. You can go down in infamy by having your name mentioned as the donor, or remain anonymous. I would send you a fine selection of various marcas in exchange, that you can be assured will be the real thing."

Wilkey kept several of my boxes, and sent back a few that I wanted to keep (they actually smoked quite well). I never saw the selection of various marcas. I let it go after hinting about it to him a few times in PM. I never wanted to call him out on it. Honestly, I felt no good would have come of it, and I would have been the new guy going up against a well respected member. I just let it go, and moved on. The only time I ever made mention of it was to Brian when his story sounded eerily similar to mine.
I've never harbored any ill will toward Wilkey, I just recently reciprocated some holiday well wishes from him. I've also had the experience of settling "other concerns" quite amicably via PM's. Trading with him, or buying would be a different story I'm sorry to say. I just have a hard time buying that someone as intelligent as himself, can be so forgetfull on so many counts. Or, can completely miss so many hints, or obvious comments directed at him in threads.

I even bought into his "I'm back, and better than ever after some time off" thread. I privately wondered if he regretted not settling things with Brian and making right before he passed away. I also wondered if his supposed new outlook was brought on by those chain of events, with him knowing the last conversation he would ever have ended poorly.

 

[Allofus123]

Warning: long winded philosophical goodbye, as I stand here against the firing squad wall, I demand the right of a final statement

And to those who have gained something from my time here, I leave you all the work that I've produced. Let that, if nothing else, be my legacy. Once we are done here, we are done. The uncharitable comments in this thread have truly, fully, and irrevocably shown me that this is no longer the place for me. Although I will treasure and maintain the friendships I've developed, I find myself simply liking it here less and less. The camaraderie and the jollity have long since been tainted by a lingering veil of scorn and venom. It has stopped being my home and become a little more like...something else not quite as good.

Here is the towel. Consider it thrown in. Bill, Neal, George, Bruce, you wanted me gone. I'm gone. You've won. You've made this place sufficiently unpleasant, unwelcoming, and unfulfilling for me to finally leave. How do you know this is not just another couple of weeks away only to return with a cheery 'how do?' Because I am telling the entire forum that I give up and you have won. It's funny. Back in 2005 I was looking for a place to call home and happened to make contact with Bill. It was, in part, his praise of CigarPass that brought me here. It was that reality fulfilled that kept me here.

But now I leave CigarPass in your hands. For you to treat as you see fit. Yours to shape into a vision of what this community should be. This place is yours now as, apparently, it ever was. What it is, what it is to become, all this will be the fruits of your guidance, your example. I trust that will be sufficient. If not, at least rest easy in knowing that the average sentence length of posts on this forum will soon drop precipitously.

Now let's get this done. Hell, I'll even buy the first bullet.

Wilkey

Oh for crying out loud..... are you serious? Wilkey, I've never taken issue with you about anything though I've always considered you full of yourself with your long winded posts and this ranks right up there with the best of them. Has nothing to do with your contributions to this forum or how smart you portray yourself to be as its obvious you're an educated person... but BS is BS. Apologizing and then throwing down a story about leaving because everyone is so mean to you is sad. Playing the sympathy card works with leg humpers not those of us that have been around here to understand this community. Its a shame you decided to go out this way.

BTW, your last paragraph about "you" leaving cigarpass in our hands..... wow, just wow! :0

 

[jfields]

BTW....I'm not interested in the cigars anymore. Just wanted to put it out there that not everyone feels the need to run to Rod for every problem. That, and just because you're hearing about something for the first time, doesn't mean it's not true. Even if it happened two weeks, or two years ago.

 

[SamClemmons]

Warning: long winded philosophical goodbye, as I stand here against the firing squad wall, I demand the right of a final statement

And to those who have gained something from my time here, I leave you all the work that I've produced. Let that, if nothing else, be my legacy. Once we are done here, we are done. The uncharitable comments in this thread have truly, fully, and irrevocably shown me that this is no longer the place for me. Although I will treasure and maintain the friendships I've developed, I find myself simply liking it here less and less. The camaraderie and the jollity have long since been tainted by a lingering veil of scorn and venom. It has stopped being my home and become a little more like...something else not quite as good.

Here is the towel. Consider it thrown in. Bill, Neal, George, Bruce, you wanted me gone. I'm gone. You've won. You've made this place sufficiently unpleasant, unwelcoming, and unfulfilling for me to finally leave. How do you know this is not just another couple of weeks away only to return with a cheery 'how do?' Because I am telling the entire forum that I give up and you have won. It's funny. Back in 2005 I was looking for a place to call home and happened to make contact with Bill. It was, in part, his praise of CigarPass that brought me here. It was that reality fulfilled that kept me here.

But now I leave CigarPass in your hands. For you to treat as you see fit. Yours to shape into a vision of what this community should be. This place is yours now as, apparently, it ever was. What it is, what it is to become, all this will be the fruits of your guidance, your example. I trust that will be sufficient. If not, at least rest easy in knowing that the average sentence length of posts on this forum will soon drop precipitously.

Now let's get this done. Hell, I'll even buy the first bullet.

Wilkey

Oh for crying out loud..... are you serious? Wilkey, I've never taken issue with you about anything though I've always considered you full of yourself with your long winded posts and this ranks right up there with the best of them. Has nothing to do with your contributions to this forum or how smart you portray yourself to be as its obvious you're an educated person... but BS is BS. Apologizing and then throwing down a story about leaving because everyone is so mean to you is sad. Playing the sympathy card works with leg humpers not those of us that have been around here to understand this community. Its a shame you decided to go out this way.

BTW, your last paragraph about "you" leaving cigarpass in our hands..... wow, just wow! :0

I'm just glad he let me stay.

NA

 

[JHolmes763]

That, and just because you're hearing about something for the first time, doesn't mean it's not true. Even if it happened two weeks, or two years ago.

As an newbie looking in on this, I'm glad the question was asked and a few more people spoke up. It makes the situation clearer than the "trust me" option, which is never a bad thing.

-John

 

[Allofus123]

It makes the situation clearer than the "trust me" option, which is never a bad thing.

-John

I know many here where "trust me" is all I would need to hear. I bet you know a few here that you take their word for what they say. Your issue would seem to be not trusting the messenger.

 

[Mark Twain]

Go back through Brian's post, do some searching. Many times he tried to bait Wilkey, cryptically calling him out, hoping to get a response from him. He always chose to ignore these post, and Brian never got his chance. Rod doesn't need to know about every little bad thing that happens here. These things have a way of working themselves out and eventually coming to light. What does it matter if it's two weeks, or one year. Screw around, and you'll eventually get caught.

John,

Thanks for coming out and publicly saying this.

Timing does matter. It's not just the guy getting the shaft.

It's profoundly important to make an issue like this public the minute it goes down so the rest of the community is aware of it and newer members and established members don't get the same treatment. It's important to be direct too. Publicly calling out a member is the best thing to do if you don't get anywhere privately.

 

[ggiese]

Still waiting on the 4 other "phantom" members who have been wronged by Wilkey to show up.

You just don't know when to STFU do you? Are you saying that I'm lying? Don't go down that road.....

I stated that the person who sent me the email saying that he didn't receive his end from wilkey nor did three others is a long-standing and highly respected member of this community. There are also enough other people out there who I have shared the identity of this person with and they all know damn well what the truth is so once again you best just keep your mouth shut from now on, okay?

I know who one was (a very good friend), not the other 3. If it was such a big deal to bring other people into it, then maybe they should speak up.

Don't tell me to STFU or keep my mouth shut. I'm not a f*cking kid or someone you can talk down to. If I wanted to call you a liar, I would.

Oh yes you are kid, I'm old enough to be your father. Trying showing a little respect and LISTEN to advice instead of shooting your mouth off YET AGAIN.

You won't get any respect from me by telling me to STFU or keep my mouth shut, nor by talking down to me.

My statement wasn't aimed at you, but rather to see if anyone else wanted to make their problems known. Keep talking down to me, as that shows more about your character than mine.

I think it's speaking volumes of who you are in pursuing the four "phantom" people. Is it to "destroy" Bill or "destroy" Wilkey? Your pursuit is, nonetheless, tactless and serves no other purpose than self satisfaction.

You really would be wise to let it go...

What's tactless is to bring up other people in a problem not involving them to begin with and then not expect them to have something to say.

Hey Mike - mission accomplished!!!

 

[Mike33]

BTW....I'm not interested in the cigars anymore. Just wanted to put it out there that not everyone feels the need to run to Rod for every problem. That, and just because you're hearing about something for the first time, doesn't mean it's not true. Even if it happened two weeks, or two years ago.

John, the issue was not me believing that this had happened; the issue was bringing other people into a dispute between Wilkey and CC. There was no reason to bring other people into the situation, unless they did so themselves. The only reason it was done was to start more drama and that is the simple truth. Instead of focusing on rectifying the current problem, CC felt the need to bring other people in, and then stated it was up to those people to reveal themselves. It looks like I wasn't the only one who wanted these other people to come forward either, so yeah ggiese, it looks like mission accomplished huh? Too bad it couldn't have just stopped with CC instead of dragging other people into it?

Hey Mike - mission accomplished!!!

 

[CoventryCat86]

Well said, Anthony.

This whole thing has become quite childish, much like a fight in grammar school where everyone has to come look and throw in their two cents in. If you are not involved in this, then stay out of it.

Bill - Wilkey apologized, either accept it or cut ties with him and move on. If anyone else is owed anything by Wilkey, then speak up. If they're too afraid to speak up, then obviously they don't feel it's that important and is now a dead issue.

The name calling and child-like behavior is complete bullshit. If you can't settle disputes like adults, then you don't belong here. That goes for everyone.

Wilkey has extended his hand in trying to resolve this situation; not sure what else is expected of him. Bill - what will it be?

I think what "is expected of him" is that he send me the cigars he promised he'd send me. I think his most recent purobrat-type "Thanks for the memories" (with the "wounded rabbit" routine tossed in) post in this thread (January 2, 2009 at 4:24 EST) is offensive and out of line, you know the one where he claims that Neal, Bruce, George and I want him "gone."

Until he fulfills his obligation (meaning that until I receive the cigars), the ball is still in his court, not mine Rod so I don't know what to tell you.

 

[CoventryCat86]

BTW....I'm not interested in the cigars anymore. Just wanted to put it out there that not everyone feels the need to run to Rod for every problem. That, and just because you're hearing about something for the first time, doesn't mean it's not true. Even if it happened two weeks, or two years ago.

John, the issue was not me believing that this had happened; the issue was bringing other people into a dispute between Wilkey and CC. There was no reason to bring other people into the situation, unless they did so themselves. The only reason it was done was to start more drama and that is the simple truth. Instead of focusing on rectifying the current problem, CC felt the need to bring other people in, and then stated it was up to those people to reveal themselves. It looks like I wasn't the only one who wanted these other people to come forward either, so yeah ggiese, it looks like mission accomplished huh? Too bad it couldn't have just stopped with CC instead of dragging other people into it?

Hey Mike - mission accomplished!!!

You are wrong as usual. Your credibility here continues to diminish with your continued ignorance and now you're just plain lying.

Where did I "state that is was up to those people to reveal themselves?"

If you can find a post where I said that, I will apologize to you for calling you a liar. Until such time, you sir are a liar.

What's relevant here is wilkey's pattern of behavior. If it was ONLY me, that would be one thing but your statement claiming that this "was done to start more drama and that is the simple truth" only shows how ignorant and wrongheaded you are.

Once again, I'm giving you friendly advice here, for the sake of your already damaged reputation, PLEASE, PLEASE resist the urge to make anymore posts in this thread on the subject because you're only harming yourself, not me.

 

[Wurm]

I am getting deja vu and a headache reading this... time to shut off the PC and go smoke a cigar.

 

[Mike33]

BTW....I'm not interested in the cigars anymore. Just wanted to put it out there that not everyone feels the need to run to Rod for every problem. That, and just because you're hearing about something for the first time, doesn't mean it's not true. Even if it happened two weeks, or two years ago.

John, the issue was not me believing that this had happened; the issue was bringing other people into a dispute between Wilkey and CC. There was no reason to bring other people into the situation, unless they did so themselves. The only reason it was done was to start more drama and that is the simple truth. Instead of focusing on rectifying the current problem, CC felt the need to bring other people in, and then stated it was up to those people to reveal themselves. It looks like I wasn't the only one who wanted these other people to come forward either, so yeah ggiese, it looks like mission accomplished huh? Too bad it couldn't have just stopped with CC instead of dragging other people into it?

Hey Mike - mission accomplished!!!

You are wrong as usual. Your credibility here continues to diminish with your continued ignorance and now you're just plain lying.

Where did I "state that is was up to those people to reveal themselves?"

If you can find a post where I said that, I will apologize to you for calling you a liar. Until such time, you sir are a liar.

What's relevant here is wilkey's pattern of behavior. If it was ONLY me, that would be one thing but your statement claiming that this "was done to start more drama and that is the simple truth" only shows how ignorant and wrongheaded you are.

Once again, I'm giving you friendly advice here, for the sake of your already damages reputation, PLEASE, PLEASE resist the urge to make anymore posts in this thread on the subject because you're only harming yourself, not me.

:laugh:

Now you are making me laugh. Of course you didn't use those words, if you did I would've quoted you. You obviously implied it by bringing them up in the first place; don't be naive. Your continued "spinning" of the issue is what is truly "ignorant and wrongheaded." The issue is not about Wilkey or as you think, me calling you a liar. The issue is your classless behavior of bringing other people into a problem you were having with Wilkey.

What reason did you have to bring other people into it, other than to start sh*t? Was it wrong then for myself, Rod, Anthony, and others wanting to hear from the other people? The only reason you brought those other people into it was to create more sh*t, pure and simple. Why don't you answer those questions and maybe retain some of your dwindling credibility.

For the sake of not making yourself look any worse (if that's possible), take your own advice, and shut your mouth. I've made my point and won't post anymore on this thread, I suggest you do the same and stop while you are behind.

 

[CoventryCat86]

:laugh:

Now you are making me laugh. Of course you didn't use those words, if you did I would've quoted you. You obviously implied it by bringing them up in the first place; don't be naive. Your continued "spinning" of the issue is what is truly "ignorant and wrongheaded." The issue is not about Wilkey or as you think, me calling you a liar. The issue is your classless behavior of bringing other people into a problem you were having with Wilkey.

What reason did you have to bring other people into it, other than to start sh*t? Was it wrong then for myself, Rod, Anthony, and others wanting to hear from the other people? The only reason you brought those other people into it was to create more sh*t, pure and simple. Why don't you answer those questions and maybe retain some of your dwindling credibility.

For the sake of not making yourself look any worse (if that's possible), take your own advice, and shut your mouth. I've made my point and won't post anymore on this thread, I suggest you do the same and stop while you are behind.

Yep, you're still a liar.

 

[sonuvabum]

Rod??

Please!!

 

[SamClemmons]

Mike, the reason for bringing other people into it who experienced the exact same problems with wilkey is pretty obvious. Don't you think establishing a pattern of bad trading habits of a particular member is important when discussing a particular member? If there is a history behind a transgression then it should be part of the discussion. If you don't think so then you are wrong. If you think Bill was saying these things to damage wilkey's reputation then you are wrong. wilkey's actions damaged wilkey's reputation. What is also obvious is that you have a bone to chew with Bill and you are the one stirring up crap. How about you put a lid on it little fella?

NA

Rod. Please don't lock this thread. It's important.